Hi Anthony, I haven't been exposed to a lot of zen 'stuffs', but from what I gathered so far, it seems that shikantaza does carry a value more than its literal meaning. But then again many people don't understand its literal meaning in its original language. Maybe, many people assume these words to mean 'sit', while 'da zuo' is means sitting meditation instead of sitting. To those who learn shikantaza (as word) as 'clear mind sitting', then that is what shikantaza means. That is what I thought until I saw the chinese characters. There probably is no right term for sitting with clear mind anyway.
Now if I go further, this will end up to something like 'words always fail in describing something like this', but Ed has asked me to be moon-gazer practitioner once, I might really have to accept the invitation if I go on (which might be a good idea afterall). Have a good evening, Siska -----Original Message----- From: Anthony Wu <wu...@yahoo.com.sg> Sender: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2011 21:02:36 To: <Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com> Reply-To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: Buddhist meditation practices Siska, I am glad you understand Chinese. What I have been trying to do is to avoid being a laughing stock when they insist the word 'just sit' can carry an additional sense of 'clear mind'. It is more so when you show the Chinese characters to those who know them(as real Chinese, not adapted by Japanese), However, my efforts are misunderstood as being malignant. So I had better stop. In reality, I am in full agreement with 'sitting directed to no object, and attached to no content.' Anthony --- On Mon, 11/4/11, siska_...@yahoo.com <siska_...@yahoo.com> wrote: From: siska_...@yahoo.com <siska_...@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: Buddhist meditation practices To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, 11 April, 2011, 7:47 PM Hi Anthony, Bill, If I may step in, I understand Anthony's point because I happen to understand the chinese characters of shikantaza, which if I'm not mistaken, spelled zhi guan da zuo, which literally means only sitting, as meditation kind of sitting. But when sitting as referred to in this term, a lot of things can happen in the mind. The way I understand it, Bill might refer to literally only 'sitting' and nothing else, which can only happen when the mind is clear. Perhaps in chinese, it will have to reduce to literally 'only (zhi) and sit (zuo). But I suppose the japanese term would no longer be shikantaza. In this case, I do think the term shikantaza as rather limiting. How do you call a state of clear mind just as in zazen, when it happens while you are not in sitting position? :-) Siska From: Anthony Wu <wu...@yahoo.com.sg> Sender: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2011 10:54:39 +0800 (SGT) To: <Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com> ReplyTo: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: Buddhist meditation practices Bill, You say, 'I was taught that 'shikantaza' means 'just sit' - nothing else.' It is 100% correct. If you 'just sit', you can do day dreaming, or think about your girl friend. There is no definite connection between shikantaza and clear mind. Google quotes some Japanese sources that have shikantaza imply clear mind. I thought about that, and concluded that the word is foreign to Japanese, so they unwittingly added additional meanings to it. However, the original Chinese word means only 'just sit' and nothing else. It is colloquial. When you ask a 10 year old Chinese boy to do shikantaza, he will immediately sit cross-legged in front of you. You cannot see his mind anyway. The better way is to say 'shikantaza with clear mind'. Anthony --- On Sun, 10/4/11, Bill! <billsm...@hhs1963.org> wrote: From: Bill! <billsm...@hhs1963.org> Subject: [Zen] Re: Buddhist meditation practices To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, 10 April, 2011, 8:31 AM Anthony, I was taught that 'shikantaza' means 'just sit' - nothing else. How could there be some kind of shikantaza that WASN'T 'clear mind'? If your mind was not clear, if you were thinking about something, it wouldn't be shikantaza. That is the way I use this word 'shikantaza' anyway. If you could suggest a better word please do... ...Bill! --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Anthony Wu <wuasg@...> wrote: > > Bill, > Â > Correction: > Â > Anything else like counting or following the breath or koans are only > teaching techniques to get you to shikantaza with clear mind. > Â > Anthony > > --- On Sun, 10/4/11, Bill! <BillSmart@...> wrote: > > > From: Bill! <BillSmart@...> > Subject: [Zen] Re: Buddhist meditation practices > To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com > Date: Sunday, 10 April, 2011, 12:05 AM > > > Â > > > > ED, > > In my opinion shikantaza is zazen. Anything else like counting or following > the breath or koans are only teaching techniques to get you to shikantaza. > > ...Bill! > > --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, "ED" <seacrofter001@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Bill, > > > > The list, author unknown is to be found in the source below. > > > > Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddhist_meditation > > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddhist_meditation> > > > > Shikantaza is an awareness practice, whereas zazen involves both > > concentration meditation (breath-counting for instance) and shikantaza, > > in varying extents. > > > > --ED > > > > > > > > --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, "Bill!" <BillSmart@> wrote: > > > > > > ED, > > > > > > Under the ZEN BUDDHIST MEDITATION PRACTICES what do you think whomever > > made up this list (you?) thinks is the difference between 'zazen' and > > 'shikantaza'? > > > > > > Thanks...Bill! > > > > > > > --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, "ED" seacrofter001@ wrote: > > > > > > > > Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddhist_meditation > > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddhist_meditation> > > >
