To Anthony and Siska, What you seem to be saying is NOT that the Chinese/Japanese character for 'sit' is misinterpreted to mean 'clear mind'; what you are seeming to imply is that the Chinese/Japanese character for 'sit' means more than to 'just sit'. It means sitting AND thinking, daydreaming, etc...
What is the Chinese/Japanese word(s)/character(s) for 'meditation'? ...Bill! ...Bill! --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, siska_cen@... wrote: > > Hi Anthony, > > I haven't been exposed to a lot of zen 'stuffs', but from what I gathered so > far, it seems that shikantaza does carry a value more than its literal > meaning. But then again many people don't understand its literal meaning in > its original language. Maybe, many people assume these words to mean 'sit', > while 'da zuo' is means sitting meditation instead of sitting. To those who > learn shikantaza (as word) as 'clear mind sitting', then that is what > shikantaza means. That is what I thought until I saw the chinese characters. > There probably is no right term for sitting with clear mind anyway. > > Now if I go further, this will end up to something like 'words always fail in > describing something like this', but Ed has asked me to be moon-gazer > practitioner once, I might really have to accept the invitation if I go on > (which might be a good idea afterall). > > Have a good evening, > > Siska > > -----Original Message----- > From: Anthony Wu <wuasg@...> > Sender: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com > Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2011 21:02:36 > To: <Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com> > Reply-To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: Buddhist meditation practices > > Siska, > Â > I am glad you understand Chinese. What I have been trying to do is to avoid > being a laughing stock when they insist the word 'just sit' can carry an > additional sense of 'clear mind'. It is more so when you show the Chinese > characters to those who know them(as real Chinese, not adapted by Japanese), > However, my efforts are misunderstood as being malignant. So I had better > stop. > > In reality, I am in full agreement with 'sitting directed to no object, and > attached to no content.' > Â > Anthony > --- On Mon, 11/4/11, siska_cen@... <siska_cen@...> wrote: > > > From: siska_cen@... <siska_cen@...> > Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: Buddhist meditation practices > To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com > Date: Monday, 11 April, 2011, 7:47 PM > > > Â > > > > Hi Anthony, Bill, > > If I may step in, > > I understand Anthony's point because I happen to understand the chinese > characters of shikantaza, which if I'm not mistaken, spelled zhi guan da zuo, > which literally means only sitting, as meditation kind of sitting. But when > sitting as referred to in this term, a lot of things can happen in the mind. > > The way I understand it, Bill might refer to literally only 'sitting' and > nothing else, which can only happen when the mind is clear. Perhaps in > chinese, it will have to reduce to literally 'only (zhi) and sit (zuo). But I > suppose the japanese term would no longer be shikantaza. > > In this case, I do think the term shikantaza as rather limiting. How do you > call a state of clear mind just as in zazen, when it happens while you are > not in sitting position? :-) > > Siska > > > > From: Anthony Wu <wuasg@...> > Sender: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com > Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2011 10:54:39 +0800 (SGT) > To: <Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com> > ReplyTo: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: Buddhist meditation practices > > Â > > > > > > > Bill, > Â > You say, 'I was taught that 'shikantaza' means 'just sit' - nothing else.' > Â > It is 100% correct. If you 'just sit', you can do day dreaming, or think > about your girl friend. Â There is no definite connection between shikantaza > and clear mind. > Â > Google quotes some Japanese sources that have shikantaza imply clear mind. I > thought about that, and concluded that the word is foreign to Japanese, so > they unwittingly added additional meanings to it. However, the original > Chinese word means only 'just sit' and nothing else. It is colloquial. When > you ask a 10 year old Chinese boy to do shikantaza, he will immediately sit > cross-legged in front of you. You cannot see his mind anyway. > Â > The better way is to say 'shikantaza with clear mind'. > Â > Anthony > > --- On Sun, 10/4/11, Bill! <BillSmart@...> wrote: > > > From: Bill! <BillSmart@...> > Subject: [Zen] Re: Buddhist meditation practices > To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com > Date: Sunday, 10 April, 2011, 8:31 AM > > > Â > > Anthony, > > I was taught that 'shikantaza' means 'just sit' - nothing else. How could > there be some kind of shikantaza that WASN'T 'clear mind'? If your mind was > not clear, if you were thinking about something, it wouldn't be shikantaza. > > That is the way I use this word 'shikantaza' anyway. If you could suggest a > better word please do... > > ...Bill! > > --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Anthony Wu <wuasg@> wrote: > > > > Bill, > > ÃÂ > > Correction: > > ÃÂ > > Anything else like counting or following the breath or koans are only > > teaching techniques to get you to shikantaza with clear mind. > > ÃÂ > > Anthony > > > > --- On Sun, 10/4/11, Bill! <BillSmart@> wrote: > > > > > > From: Bill! <BillSmart@> > > Subject: [Zen] Re: Buddhist meditation practices > > To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com > > Date: Sunday, 10 April, 2011, 12:05 AM > > > > > > ÃÂ > > > > > > > > ED, > > > > In my opinion shikantaza is zazen. Anything else like counting or following > > the breath or koans are only teaching techniques to get you to shikantaza. > > > > ...Bill! > > > > --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, "ED" <seacrofter001@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill, > > > > > > The list, author unknown is to be found in the source below. > > > > > > Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddhist_meditation > > > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddhist_meditation> > > > > > > Shikantaza is an awareness practice, whereas zazen involves both > > > concentration meditation (breath-counting for instance) and shikantaza, > > > in varying extents. > > > > > > --ED > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, "Bill!" <BillSmart@> wrote: > > > > > > > > ED, > > > > > > > > Under the ZEN BUDDHIST MEDITATION PRACTICES what do you think whomever > > > made up this list (you?) thinks is the difference between 'zazen' and > > > 'shikantaza'? > > > > > > > > Thanks...Bill! > > > > > > > > > > --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, "ED" seacrofter001@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddhist_meditation > > > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddhist_meditation> > > > > > > ------------------------------------ Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! 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