In the spirit of animated controversy, there is supposedly a quote by Dogen:  
kensho is the animated activity of non-Buddhists. I have only seen it quoted by 
Brad Warner, however. 

Thanks,
Chris Austin-Lane
Sent from a cell phone

On May 23, 2011, at 9:08, [email protected] wrote:

> 
> 
> Hi Ed,
> 
> I still cannot figure out clearly what kensho actually is, but from the 
> descriptions, it looks like kensho is very similar to nyana (insight) 
> experience as in Mahasi tradition in Theravada.
> 
> Daniel, looking forward to your opinion (or correction). 
> 
> Siska
> From: "ED" <[email protected]>
> Sender: [email protected]
> Date: Mon, 23 May 2011 13:45:08 -0000
> To: <[email protected]>
> ReplyTo: [email protected]
> Subject: [Zen] Zen, zen and Theravada Buddhism
> 
>  
> 
> Hello All,
> 
> Definitions:     Zen = Zen Buddhism;     zen = Zen minus the Buddhism
> 
> The Noble Eightfold Path is sometimes divided into three basic categories as 
> follows:
> 
> 
> I.  Wisdom (Sanskrit: prajna, Pali: panna)
> 
> 1. Right understanding
> 
> 2. Right intention
> 
> II.  Ethical conduct (Sanskrit and Pali: sila)
> 
> 3. Right speech 
>  
> 4. Right action 
>  
> 5. Right livelihood 
>  
> III.  Concentration (Sanskrit and Pali: samadhi)
> 
> 6. Right effort 
>  
> 7. Right mindfulness 
>  
> 8. Right concentration 
>  
> 
> o   Theravada Buddhism embraces all three categories of the Noble Eightfold 
> Path.
> 
> o   Zen accepts all three categories, but tends to de-emphasize I and II, in 
> my obsevation/knowledge/belief. 
> 
> o   zen accepts category III only, or possibly only steps 7. and 8. of 
> category III.
> 
> -------
> 
> Zenists (and zenists) seek to achieve, or, without seeking, achieve in 
> kensho-satori, glimpses of: a sense of no-self or no I/me/mine; a sense of an 
> absolute nondual reality; a sense of nothing arising or perishing; a sense of 
> freedom from all bonds; and a sense of seeing directly and deeply into the 
> nature of things, without discriminating or discursive thinking. 
> 
> The experience of the ineffable mind-space decribed above has been labeled 
> 'realizing Buddha Nature".
> 
> I say 'glimpses of a sense of'' because we have to take the practitioner at 
> his/her word, or the Zen Teacher at his/her word for this accomplishment or 
> non-accomplishment of a student of Zen experiencing the above state.
> 
> And, it doesn't really matter because, no tangible benefits are promised to 
> ensue from these experiences. Do non-experiencers of kensho-satori observe 
> any tangible, positive transformation in Zenists who have experienced 
> kensho-satori? We do not know. 
> 
> ------
> 
> 
> Of the dozens and dozens of zen/Zen centers in the US, perhaps only one 
> advocates 'zen'. Possibly for now we ought to only focus on comparing 
> Theravada Buddhism with *Zen*, and leave out zen.
> 
> 
> Daniel, kindly tell us if through Theravada Buddhist practices, experiences 
> of mind-states similar to the ones in kensho-satori tend to arise.
> 
> Thanks, ED
> 
>  
> 
> 
> 
> 

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