[ED] Mike, but nothing on Jnana (mainly a term in Hinduism)? [MIKE]
I believe so. Jnana is a branch of yoga using knowledge and the
intellect to experience union with God. [ED] So, the Hindus had
understood over 2,800 years ago that for some personality types, Jnana
Yoga is a feasible path (of knowledge and intellect), for attaining the
experience of oneness of Atman and Brahman, of which the Zen equivalent
is the realization of Buddha Nature. [ED] I do not at all discount
metta states, although their ultimate benefit to self or other is not
clear. [MIKE] Practicing metta opens our heart to compassion for
ourselves and every other sentient being. I think the benefit of that
would be obvious. [ED] I know that metta states make the experiencer
feel good. Is there any other benefit to anyone? [ED] And after
all, will not metta states also be transcended? [MIKE] If you say that
metta states will be transcended, then you'll be joining Bill! for
another 500 rebirths as a fox!
[ED] Mike, I asserted nothing; I asked a question. How do you know for
certain that metta states will never be trancended? What other states
will never be transcended?
--- In [email protected], mike brown <uerusuboyo@...> wrote:
>
ED,
>Mike, but nothing on Jnana (mainly a term in Hinduism)? I believe so.
Jnana is a branch of yoga using knowledge and the intellect to
experience union with God.
>I too arrived at this realization recently, thanks to the article on
Jhanas by Jay Michaelson, posted by you on the Zen Forum recently, (and
which I never gotten around to thanking you for.) No need to thank me.
I'm happy it was useful (as it was for me).
>I concluded the same about you a few weeks ago, when you reported
experiences that seemed to suggest that you may have experienced the
first or the first two jhana states.
Make that the first 4.. (sniff sniff).
>Jhana states are not too frequent in Zen practice, because shikantaza
is mainly a mindfulness-type meditation practice, and jhanas are usually
the outcome of concentration-type (shamatha) practices. That seems to
be largely true, but people can unwittingly experience them during
meditation if their concentration is strong enough. I remember Bill!
reporting an experience that seems typical of the 1st jhana just before
he experienced kensho.
>When jhana states occur in Zen practice, they usually do so *after* the
makyo states and prior to the kensho states. See above.
>I do not at all discount metta states, although their ultimate benefit
to self or other is not clear. > Practicing metta opens our heart to
compassion for ourselves and everyother sentient being. I think the
benefit of that would be obvious. If you say that metta states will be
transcended, then you'll be joining Bill! for another 500 rebirths as a
fox!
>Your revealing the recent experiences in your practice and the Jay
Michaelson article you posted have clarified certain matters for me, and
for which I am grateful. >At the present time, I am observing the
nihilistic-like state I have been moving into: All dharmas are empty.
Life is empty and meaningless other than for the meaning one gives it.
--ED I believe we have an innate need to search for a meaning. Whether
or not we come back to the starting point with the realisation that
there is no meaning doesn't matter. It's the journey that matters. It's
just like all those archetypal stories of the hero who leaves home to
discover the meaning of life, only to realise that the 'secret' has been
right where he was all along. --Mike
