--- In [email protected], mike brown <uerusuboyo@...> wrote:
>
> ED,
>
> I'm reading an excellent book by Daniel Ingrams at the moment
'Mastering the Core Teachings of The Buddha'. In it, he writes in
considerable detail about the nanas and the jhanas.

Mike, but nothing on Jnana (mainly a term in Hinduism)?



> What I'm finding is that I experience something profound whilst
meditating and then read that it's just something you have to go thru
'on the path' and not that unusual. The uncanny thing is that these
experiences often occur in sequence and you only find that out after the
fact (i.e, on the maps).

I too arrived at this realization recently, thanks to the article on
Jhanas by Jay Michaelson, posted by you on the Zen Forum recently, (and
which I never gotten around to thanking you for.)



> I just don't hold with that 'it's all just makyo' anymore.

I concluded the same about you a few weeks ago, when you reported
experiences that seemed to suggest that you may have experienced the
first or the first two jhana states.

Jhana states are not too frequent in Zen practice, because shikantaza is
mainly a mindfulness-type meditation practice, and jhanas are usually
the outcome of concentration-type (shamatha) practices.

When jhana states occur in Zen practice, they usually do so *after* the
mayko states and prior to the kensho states.



> I guess it has to be experienced to understand that, but I'm finding
that with vipassana meditation you can feel/see the mind becoming
brighter and a much deeper sense of metta than I ever experienced in 10
years of Zen.
>
> Mike

I do not at all discount metta states, although their ultimate benefit
to self or other is not clear. And after all, will not metta states also
be transcended?

Your revealing the recent experiences in your practice and the Jay
Michaelson article you posted have clarified certain matters for me, and
for which I am grateful.

At the present time, I am observing the nihilistic-like state I have
been moving into: All dharmas are empty.  Life is empty and meaningless
other than for the meaning one gives it.

--ED





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