Hi Mike and Bill,
Thank to the last two posts from Mike, I have an opportunity now to
share about the essence of Sitting Chan.
* Another perspective that we share is that "our body" is an
illusion. Because our body is not "ours", our body is a
collection of sixty billion cells (not sure of the right number of
zeros). Each of these cells is a sentient being contributing to
our well being. Our wisdom is a collection of all their wisdom.
When we sit, we are sitting for them, ferry each cell to Buddha
land. Be grateful to each of them. We (the collective of all
cell) are well only if every cell is well. Therefore, sitting is
not to benefit ourselves, but benefit every sentient being inside
and outside of us. Therefore, Enlightenment is not just a mental
state. It need to be a total integration of our physical body as
well. Buddhist call this crossing the three EONs of body, mind
and spirit.
* Chi is just an ancient Chinese label for energy. It is not
important what it is called. Nor we need to understand or
comprehend it. Because chi, or our life force, is the same life
force that manifest everything else in the universe, the pebbles,
the flowers, the stars and the sun. It is through this chi, we
are connected. Without this chi, the universe is not alive.
* What Bill's simplistic term of "just this" is the essence of zen,
which is not wrong, but IMO it is incomplete. Just this is not
static. Like everything else, it is dynamic. It is alive. It is
true only in every moment. Like the stars, each relationship is a
steady state maintained by energy. Without these life force,
there is no relationship. IMO, without chi, just this is only a
transient mental state and can not be maintained. The only way we
can be in sync with the wisdom of every moment, is by keeping in
pace with the rhythm of the life force. This is just simple physics.
* Enlightenment is just a synchronization with the laws of the
universe in real time in a dynamic way.
This is for your reference. Thank you for your time,
JM
Learn to de-stress, energize and awaken
http://www.chan-meditation.com
Learn to live with Health, Happiness and Harmony
http://www.chanliving.org
Learn to reach enlightenment
http://www.heartchan.org
To save the world
http://www.universal-oneness.org
On 6/2/2011 3:16 PM, mike brown wrote:
Hi JM, Bill! and ED,
Yes, I tend to agree with you here. We instinctively know when a
certain pain is telling us, "Stop what you're doing... NOW!" in order
to protect us. But the 'pain' from sitting with the spine erect,
cross-legged on a cushion is not the same thing at all and is merely
discomfort (often labelled as 'pain' in order to make us feel ok for
giving in to it). Bill! often talks about the illusionary aspect of
phenomena - well what a perfect opportunity to put that to the test
and see pain (NOT the disabling kind) as only a mental construct and
sit thru it (the pain is not 'me' or 'mine' and is impermanent). Far
from being cognitive, vipassana meditation 'uses' the body like a
laboratory to really experience what is ultimate reality and what is
illusionary. How many of us are satisfied with our zazen and then the
whole house of cards comes crashing down with something simple like
bad a toothache? I guess the key word is 'equanimity', but IMO, one
can only realise
it by going thru experience (trials and tribulations) and not thru
merely reasoning about it.
I don't know a great deal about chi, but given its long time use in
Oriental medicine, it must have some merit. What I've found recently,
is that my sitting time has lengthened considerably due to the
insights gained from observing what is happening to the body/mind
during the meditation session. Along with these insights, there does
seem to be both a mental and physical 'unblocking' of sorts, with a
feeling of energy being able to flow more easily. What this 'energy'
is, and what is being 'unblocked' - I have no idea.
Mike
------------------------------------------------------------------------
*From:* Jue Miao Jing Ming - 覺妙精明 <[email protected]>
*To:* [email protected]
*Sent:* Friday, 3 June 2011, 2:49
*Subject:* Re: [Zen] Zen, zen and Theravada Buddhism
Hi Bill and Mike,
In our school, an effective sitting is the foundation to everything.
That's sort of the only thing we are somewhat adamant about. If I may
share with you some of the witnesses that I have from a few hundred
cases in California.
When we have pain, (not the bone fracture kind of pain, just the
tendon, muscle kind), meanings our inner chi is trying to find new
passages. When we focus and be one with it, the pain will diminish in
time, because when we focus on it, instead of resisting it, we are
applying our chi to it. Sort of acupuncture there with our mind
instead of a needle. I call that "soft-acupuncture". :-)
We have many people began their practice with us, initially with lower
back pain, sciatica, pain from spinal surgery, etc. All healed after
a few months of sitting. Chi is our innate life force that energize
itself wherever it was blocked.
Check this one out, please http://www.chanliving.org/pain.html
Since a few years ago, Bill has regarded Chi based sitting as illusory
by his mind. If you could open your heart and welcomes all advice
regardless of your judgmental mind, your pain probably already
subsided by now.
I love you, Bill, you know. I hope you can open up your heart and
stop walk a certain path. Each path, though is not perfect, has its
own merit.
:-)
Learn to de-stress, energize and awaken
http://www.chan-meditation.com
Learn to live with Health, Happiness and Harmony
http://www.chanliving.org
Learn to reach enlightenment
http://www.heartchan.org
To save the world
http://www.universal-oneness.org
On 6/1/2011 11:00 PM, Bill! wrote:
Mike,
You can tough it out if you want. I'll wave the white flag.
IMO physical pain is your body telling you that something is wrong. I
try to listen to my body when it speaks.
My approach to this is NOT what I was taught in my Japanese Zen
Buddhist training. They also thought you ought to tough it out. I did
that then, HOO-AH!, but I'm over that now.
...Bill!
--- In [email protected]
<mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com>, mike brown <uerusuboyo@...>
<mailto:uerusuboyo@...> wrote:
>
> Bill!,
> >I never try to 'sit through' pain in my legs or back... Usually
pain in the legs or back is do to bad sitting posture...
>
> I disagree. Usually pain in the legs, hips, back, shoulders etc. is
merely another word for 'discomfort' induced by sitting in one
position and not brought on by anything serious. You could have the
suppleness of a yogi or ballerina and still experience 'pain' from
sitting for an hour - in contrast to the very real pain caused by
something more serious. Vipassana meditation encourages you to face
that discomfort and gain insight into the impermanence of that
pain/discomfort and how our body/mind reactes to it (usually
aversion). Or you could just wave a white flag to it ; ) Â Hooah!
>
> Mike
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Bill! <BillSmart@...> <mailto:BillSmart@...>
> To: [email protected] <mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Thursday, 2 June 2011, 9:48
> Subject: Re: [Zen] Zen, zen and Theravada Buddhism
>
>
> Â
> Mike,
>
> Nice try but my attachment to my zafu is via my butt and not my
discriminating mind. I don't contemplate the various attributes of my
zafu while sitting. Like, 'What is it that keeps me off the floor?'.
>
> In sesshins (Japanese Zen Buddhist meditation retreats)I have sat
as long as 40 mins periods, and even up to 60 mins occasionally when the
> time-keeper goes to sleep.
>
> I never try to 'sit through' pain in my legs or back. I will make
some adjustments to try to alleviate the pain and continue sitting,
but if that fails I'll just get up, walk around a little and then
return to sitting. Usually pain in the legs or back is do to bad
sitting posture so I make sure my posture is correct when I return to
sitting.
>
> ...Bill!
>
> ...Bill!
>
> --- In [email protected]
<mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com>, mike brown <uerusuboyo@> wrote:
> >
> > Bill!,
> >
> > So it's safe to say you have no attacments to where or how you
sit, other than what is comfortable at that particular time? Same
with the jhanas. They take you deeper into your meditation and help
to make the session last longer (much like discovering a zafu that
fits your bum correctly ;) But they are not essential. There are
warnings aplenty in the literature I've read against becoming
attached to them just like anything else (at the risk of becoming a
'bliss-bunny').
> >
> >
> > I usually time my sittings between 40-60 mins depending on how
busy I am. If I have time I'll do this twice a day, but at least once
in the evening. I usually sit cross-legged, but will sometimes sit
Burmese style. If I'm feeling that the session is going well (in a
vipassana sense), but the pain is becoming too distracting, then I'll
stay mindful of my movements, but change to a more comfortable
position. However, the 40-60 min session is usually done with no
movement or changing of position whatsoever (I wasn't kidding when I
said vipassana is the SAS of meditation sessions!).ÂÂ
> >
> > Mike
> >
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: Bill! <BillSmart@>
> > To: [email protected] <mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Wednesday, 1 June 2011, 16:08
> > Subject: Re: [Zen] Zen, zen and Theravada Buddhism
> >
> >
> > ÂÂ
> > Mike,
> >
> > At home I have a zafu and zabuton. My zafu is x-large to
accomodate my x-large butt. I sit cross-legged now. I used to sit in
a half-lotus but never could really manage a full-lotus. I eventually
found the half-lotus to put me into a little bit of a tilt so I now
just sit cross-legged, and switch the top and bottom leg occasionally
when I remember to do so. I usually sit for 3-consequtive 20-minute
periods with a 5-minute break in between to get up and stretch, walk
around or go to the toliet.
> >
> > When I travel I just stuff a pillow between my legs and sit in a
kneeling position; or if that doesn't work I just sit on a firm chair
(wood is best), sitting on the front edge with my back straight and
not leaning against the chair.
> >
> > How about you?
> >
> > ...Bill!
> >
> > --- In [email protected]
<mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com>, mike brown <uerusuboyo@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Bill!,
> > >
> > > >or (IMO) ATTACHMENT to jhanas.
> > >
> > > Do you usually use a zafu/mat etc. to sit zazen, or do you just
sit wherever?
> > >
> > > Mike
> > >
> >
>
