Chris, > As a teenager I found a greatdeal of utility in the Gordon Dickson novel > "Tactics of Mistake" wherethe hero routinely transforms pain into sensation,
There is a difference between 'actively' transforming the pain into sensation, that is, tricking our mind into seeing it as sensation, and seeing the pain as sensation without any effort. The seeing happens just like that and at that moment, pain didn't even occur in our mind. > but I find thatsort of thing, while certainly useful, does not do much to > weaken thetendency of my mind to judge life or to wish for things to be > otherthan they are. Certainly no, the active effort will not help us in weaken our tendency to judge. It is only conditioning to the mind. Siska -----Original Message----- From: Chris Austin-Lane <[email protected]> Sender: [email protected] Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2011 22:10:12 To: [email protected]<[email protected]> Reply-To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [Zen] Pain: Suck it up or puss out? On Sunday, June 5, 2011, <[email protected]> wrote: > Hi Chris, > > In vipassana meditation, one is to face whatever discomfort arises during > meditation (watching your reaction towards it, because that is what it is) > until one actually sees all those discomforts, pain etc as mere sensations. > They are still there, but no longer troublesome. That is also the case for plain old zazen. One can also perform this sort of thing without meditation per se, just with autohypnosis and trance work. As a teenager I found a great deal of utility in the Gordon Dickson novel "Tactics of Mistake" where the hero routinely transforms pain into sensation, but I find that sort of thing, while certainly useful, does not do much to weaken the tendency of my mind to judge life or to wish for things to be other than they are. But the open non-striving nature of zazen does weaken those tendencies. > >> There is a great deal of practice to be found in sitting still for >> thirtyminutes watching the desire to scratch ebb and flow around the body > > Yup, tell me about it ;-) > > SiskaFrom: Chris Austin-Lane <[email protected]> > Sender: [email protected] > Date: Sat, 4 Jun 2011 11:28:35 -0700To: > [email protected]<[email protected]>ReplyTo: > [email protected] > Subject: [Zen] Pain: Suck it up or puss out? > > > > > > > > > This topic of pain is very interesting; I find that there is a very > high correlation between my discomfort while sitting and the degree of > inattention when I am sitting down onto the zafu. As I've sat over > time, and gotten more aware of the shape of my butt and the ways that > the zafu (I use zafus with the kapok hulls or whatever they are, which > are able to be positioned fairly accurately; and they stay fairly > constant during a sitting). > > One big change that I've noticed from having sat for more years is > that I am much less likely to sit uncomfortably than at first; when I > sit near beginners that have incautiously sat down and not managed to > land symmetrically and with their seat fitting their body, then when > they start to get quite uncomfortable, I am aware that the sitting is > easier for me not because of any mental (or 'spritual') change but > mere physical adjustments. > > Generally, the discomfort I have during sitting is more of the "I want > to scratch!" kind than the "I'm tearing my knee pieces off". There is > a great deal of practice to be found in sitting still for thirty > minutes watching the desire to scratch ebb and flow around the body. > > But I make very sure to pay attention to how I sit and the last few > adjustments before the bell rings. I am not looking for that practice > more than it finds me naturally. > > On Thu, Jun 2, 2011 at 3:16 PM, mike brown <[email protected]> wrote: > > Hi JM, Bill! and ED, > Yes, I tend to agree with you here. We instinctively know when a > certain pain is telling us, "Stop what you're doing... NOW!" in order > to protect us. But the 'pain' from sitting with the spine erect, > cross-legged on a cushion is not the same thing at all and is merely > discomfort (often labelled as 'pain' in order to make us feel ok for > giving in to it). Bill! often talks about the illusionary aspect of > phenomena - well what a perfect opportunity to put that to the test > and see pain (NOT the disabling kind) as only a mental construct and > sit thru it (the pain is not 'me' or 'mine' and is impermanent). Far > from being cognitive, vipassana meditation 'uses' the body like a > laboratory to really experience what is ultimate reality and what is > illusionary. How many of us are satisfied with our zazen and then the > whole house of cards comes crashing down with something simple like > bad a toothache? I guess the key word is 'equanimity', but IMO, one > can only realise > it by going thru experience (trials and tribulations) and not thru > merely reasoning about it. > > I don't know a great deal about chi, but given its long time use in > Oriental medicine, it must have some merit. What I've found recently, > is that my sitting time has lengthened considerably due to the > insights gained from observing what is happening to the body/mind > during the meditation session. Along with these insights, there does > seem to be both a mental and physical 'unblocking' of sorts, with a > feeling of energy being able to flow more easily. What this 'energy' > is, and what is being 'unblocked' - I have no > idea. > Mike > > From: Jue Miao Jing Ming - 覺妙精明 <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Sent: Friday, 3 June 2011, 2:49 > Subject: Re: [Zen] Zen, zen and Theravada Buddhism > > Hi Bill and Mike, > > In our school, an effective sitting is the foundation to > everything. That's sort of the only thing we are somewhat adamant > about. If I may share with you some of the witnesses that I have > from a few hundred cases in California. > > When we have pain, (not the bone fracture kind of pain, just the > tendon, muscle kind), meanings our inner chi is trying to find new > passages. When we focus and be one with it, the pain will > diminish in time, because when we focus on it, instead of > resisting it, we are applying our chi to it. Sort of acupuncture > there with our mind instead of a needle. I call that > "soft-acupuncture". :-) > > We have many people began their practice with us, initially with > lower back pain, sciatica, pain from spinal surgery, etc. All > healed after a few months of sitting. Chi is our innate life > force that energize itself wherever it was blocked. > > Check this one out, please > http://www.chanl <http://www.chanliving.org/pain.html> > > > > > > > >
