Mike,

Many patriarchs do write from a Buddhist point of view, but you only have to 
open any book recording koans or mondos to find zen discussed and communicated 
with no reference to Buddhism or even Buddha.  Even holding up a turnip is can 
be a demonstration.

It's not a matter of finding something contradictory.  The rules of chess are 
not contradictory to zen.  It's a matter of finding something in Buddhism that 
is absolutely necessary or indispensable to zen - something that zen is 
dependent on.  Nothing in Buddhist dogma or doctrine is necessary to zen (which 
I define as experiencing/realizing Buddha Nature).

I've said over and over again that 'Buddha Nature' this experience is usually 
called.  It is also called a lot of other things.  Read through some koans and 
you'll find a long list.

Let me ask you this...do you think it is possible for someone to experience 
Buddha Nature without ever having received any teachings in Buddhism, or even 
better without ever having heard of Buddhism?  If your answer is 'yes' then 
you'd have to agree that Buddhism and Buddhist dogma and doctrine are best case 
add-ons to the realization of Buddha Nature (which I call 'zen'); and if your 
answer is 'no' then I'd suggest you re-read the question. 

...Bill!

--- In [email protected], uerusuboyo@... wrote:
>
> Bill!,<br/><br/>Ahh, here we go again! I notice you wrote that I'm talking 
> about "Buddhism not zen" [lower case 'z']. This is *your* idiosyncratic 
> interpretation and is out of step with every writer on the subject including 
> all the Patriarchs and Dogen. Lower case zen is not something outside of Zen 
> Buddhism (except for you). And Zen Buddhism is not separate from the Dharma. 
> I challenge you to find anything central in Buddhism (I don't like the name 
> myself, but you know what I mean) that you can <br/>contradict and still 
> manifest Buddha (now there's and irony) Nature. <br/><br/>Mike<br/><br/>Sent 
> from Yahoo! Mail for iPhone
>




------------------------------------

Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are 
reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/

<*> Your email settings:
    Individual Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/join
    (Yahoo! ID required)

<*> To change settings via email:
    [email protected] 
    [email protected]

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
    [email protected]

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
    http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Reply via email to