Dear Farah, I certainly did not intend a malicious attack. I am very sorry that you did not find the mail useful, and I'm also sorry that I spent so much time composing it.
V. Farah wrote: > Hi Vivek, > > / > > I wonder about the wisdom of posting unfinished work to the list-- but > I guess that might be a matter of taste. I also don't intend to be > insensitive, but let me speak my mind clearly: these seem like notes > for a poem much more than a poem itself: the energy flags and picks > up, then flags again, in a manner which suggests that the writer is > not necessarily paying attention to where it works and where it doesn't. > > / > > Yes it is a matter of taste so you don't need to wonder about the > wisdom of posting unfinished work...besides I did not find it written > anywhere in the group policy that it is forbidden to post "unfinished > work". > > Glad to know that you did not intend to be "insensitive", for that is > exactly what you are being...sorry for speaking my mind so clearly in > turn. > > These may be notes and these might not be...maybe after a month's > revision they would become more of a poem to your taste; but I am not > posting for your pleasure only. Yes indeed I did not pay attention to > how energy flags, but if you had paid attention in turn, you could > have seen that I said it is "barely poetic". Where is it written that > a poem in free verse should follow archaic conventions? I wrote this > poem or piece because I felt the need to do so. And I sincerely > believe that it conveys the pain I felt...if you are blind to it then > I regret that. > > / > > There is a crisis of subject in this poem-- what is it about? The > heart of the poem-- ie. to me the most interesting and meaningful > thing about it-- is the lost baby brother, but this is also what the > writer seems most afraid of engaging with. To say that "imagination > pulls a break" ["imagination makes a break"?] seems like a copout; the > poet's duty is not to admit defeat but press the imagination for answers. > > / > > You say there is crises of subject in this poem…you amaze me…it is > about death and suffering and if you fail to see that then I cannot > give you more obvious explanations. > > The heart of the poem is not my lost baby brother…. You are hopelessly > wrong sir. He died 21 years ago. I mentioned him because his death is > the closest example I have of losing someone I loved. When I was > writing this piece, I was trying to imagine how it must feel to loose > a loved one. To me his memory at times can be distressing even now, > then what must be the feelings of those parents who have lost their > children just a few days ago? > > You say you are not single in your bio…do you have kids? Try and > imagine their death, let's say in a similar way as the earthquake > victims. You know squashed like some bug, bleeding and broken, barely > recognizable. If your imagination can work that far, then I must say I > am impressed by your courage. For I lack such courage. I cannot think > beyond a certain limit of gore. My imagination indeed "pulls a break". > > /I guess I personally would extract the baby brother part, then try to > build a *tight* poem around it, making use of some of the other stuff > in the poem, such as going to school etc only if one can has space for > it in the new structure/. > > You may do personally whatever you like…and believe me I would not > pounce on you the way you did on me. And the school going kids is a > major issue with me…I would never make them a side issue as you intend > to do. I am not writing about my brother, as you clearly fail to see, > but about the earth quake victims, so they come first. > > / > > I as a reader would want the revision to be deep revision, and not > superficial. > > / > > Instead of putting up a blunt demand, why don't you illustrate your > point with an example, like Mani does. > > /That would mean taking things like word-choice very seriously/. /But > I have another question for you, on all your work, and I honestly mean > it as a question because you do seem to be someone who has read the > best of modern poetry in English: what do you see as the status of > cliche in your work? My sense is that "cliche" works much better, say, > in the South Asian languages, where it is not so much a cliche as a > convention, played in tandem with received forms such as the ghazal, > where it signals and stays in dialogue with the history of those > conventions and forms. Even then, the most major modern poets in the > South Asian languages such as Faiz do seem to be able to take > conventions such as the "beloved" and recast them with radically new > meanings and gestures. In English however, the convention always seems > rapidly on the verge of degenerating into cliche, and has become very > hard to handle. Someone like Agha Shahid Ali worked with conventions > but had to really overhaul their music before they started to work for > him. In the work of Plath and Heaney, which you have cited, the main > energy comes from a complete avoidance of cliche and predictability > [in different ways—Plath raises the volume to heavy metal levels while > Heaney lowers it to ambient music] and a restless dedication [both of > them were/are hardcore revisers, and you can see traces of that > immense blood and sweat effort in their work] to keeping the language > fresh. / > > To the above barely understandable tirade I have this to say. First of > all, I do not presume to have read all of "the best of modern poetry > in English". My knowledge is limited and I am still in stages of > infancy as far as writing is concerned. Your "sense" would make more > sense if you would care to illustrate your point with constructive > criticism instead of a blunt attack. I site the work of Plath and > Heaney because I have read them…it does not necessarily follow that I > should copy them. > > / > > I guess I'm saying that I don't see that in your work, and what it > sounds to me often is cliched, both in terms of word-choice and in > terms of sense perception/ideas. > > / > > Now I am very sorry if my work fails to impress you, but like I said > before, I am not posting for your pleasure. If you like it, well and > good. If you don't then I am sorry. For you see, I am a beginner, just > a novice. I don't even pretend to be a poet, let alone impress > someone. But you clearly see yourself as an expert and a professional. > There is a difference of ten years between us. Now if you wish to > teach, why don't you preach less and be more generous with helpful > advice. What you have written in your mail is just a malicious attack, > nothing else. Believe me I will try to learn if you are willing to do > it sincerely. > > / > > A second point: perhaps you might experiment with your line breaks a > little more, try breaking them in different places? As in the poem > below, you almost always break your lines at the end of a clause > (where there would be a natural pause anyway) and where the rhyme > falls. Letting an end-rhyme chime away, remember, does not absolve you > from attention to the integrity and "alive-ness" of the line. > > / > > This is the only part of the whole mail that has seemed constructive > to me…I have tried to understand your point and some of it did make > sense. Why don't you, again I repeat, illustrate your point with an > example. I would be very grateful to you. > > Regards, > > Farah. > > > --- In [email protected], Vivek Narayanan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > Hi Farah, > > > > I wonder about the wisdom of posting unfinished work to the list-- > but I > > guess that might be a matter of taste. I also don't intend to be > > insensitive, but let me speak my mind clearly: these seem like notes > for > > a poem much more than a poem itself: the energy flags and picks up, > then > > flags again, in a manner which suggests that the writer is not > > necessarily paying attention to where it works and where it doesn't. > The > > reader's (at least this reader's) eye tends to wander around the poem > > rather than getting pulled into it. There is a crisis of subject in > this > > poem-- what is it about? The heart of the poem-- ie. to me the most > > interesting and meaningful thing about it-- is the lost baby brother, > > but this is also what the writer seems most afraid of engaging with. To > > say that "imagination pulls a break" ["imagination makes a break"?] > > seems like a copout; the poet's duty is not to admit defeat but press > > the imagination for answers. I guess I personally would extract the > baby > > brother part, then try to build a *tight* poem around it, making use of > > some of the other stuff in the poem, such as going to school etc > only if > > one can has space for it in the new structure. Of course, there > could be > > many other options for revision, too, but any way you go, I as a reader > > would want the revision to be deep revision, and not superficial. > > > > That would mean taking things like word-choice very seriously. But I > > have another question for you, on all your work, and I honestly mean it > > as a question because you do seem to be someone who has read the > best of > > modern poetry in English: what do you see as the status of cliche in > > your work? My sense is that "cliche" works much better, say, in the > > South Asian languages, where it is not so much a cliche as a > convention, > > played in tandem with received forms such as the ghazal, where it > > signals and stays in dialogue with the history of those conventions and > > forms. Even then, the most major modern poets in the South Asian > > languages such as Faiz do seem to be able to take conventions such as > > the "beloved" and recast them with radically new meanings and gestures. > > > > In English however, the convention always seems rapidly on the verge of > > degenerating into cliche, and has become very hard to handle. Someone > > like Agha Shahid Ali worked with conventions but had to really overhaul > > their music before they started to work for him. In the work of Plath > > and Heaney, which you have cited, the main energy comes from a complete > > avoidance of cliche and predictability [in different ways-- Plath > raises > > the volume to heavy metal levels while Heaney lowers it to ambient > > music] and a restless dedication [both of them were/are hardcore > > revisers, and you can see traces of that immense blood and sweat effort > > in their work] to keeping the language fresh. I guess I'm saying that I > > don't see that in your work, and what it sounds to me often is cliched, > > both in terms of word-choice and in terms of sense perception/ideas. > > > > A second point: perhaps you might experiment with your line breaks a > > little more, try breaking them in different places? As in the poem > > below, you almost always break your lines at the end of a clause (where > > there would be a natural pause anyway) and where the rhyme falls. > > Letting an end-rhyme chime away, remember, does not absolve you from > > attention to the integrity and "alive-ness" of the line. > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/yqIolB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> -- You are encouraged to post poetry, respond critically to the poems circulated and participate in discussions. To post, email your message to [email protected] OR post online at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ZESTPoets/post/ Tell friends to subscribe to ZESTPoets by sending a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED], OR, if they have a Yahoo! 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