Re: historical accuracy, Prophets' omniscience and reliability
Dear Hasan, I found the statement you were referring to on the other list. It was made by an ex-Baha'i who does not accept the authority of letters written on the Guardian's behalf. But since that list has a no- forwarding rule we should probably not be discussing those threads here. warmest, Susan - Original Message - From: Hasan Elias [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Monday, May 21, 2007 7:27 am Subject: historical accuracy, Prophets' omniscience and reliability To: Baha'i Studies bahai-st@list.jccc.edu In another list there was a discussion about historic reliability of Prophets and 'Abdu'l-Bahá. I said that Prophets are omniscient at will, but one participants said it is not tenable. I'm interested to know your thoughts, thanks... [EMAIL PROTECTED] escribió: Thanks for answer Susan, if we don't know what the Master had in mind, but what is the historic context of left at least? Dear Hasan, I get the impression that this Tablet was sent to some non-Baha'is after WWI. I read it as saying that the conflicts which created this war are still with us and things will only get worse. I think He's saying that what has happened in Russia (the Bolshevik Revolution) will happen elsewhere as well. But note that He puts the ultimate blame for these troubles on prejudice. warmest, Susan The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-306906- [EMAIL PROTECTED]: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu http://hasaneliasperu.blogspot.com/ __ Correo Yahoo! Espacio para todos tus mensajes, antivirus y antispam ¡gratis! Regístrate ya - http://correo.espanol.yahoo.com/ __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-307927- [EMAIL PROTECTED]: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public -
Re: Religious traditions question
The first accusation is one easily made for any religion but difficult to substantiate. The second would apply to Islam and in pre-modern times to Christianity and Judaism as well. - Original Message - From: M Chase [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Friday, May 11, 2007 0:05 am Subject: Religious traditions question To: Baha'i Studies bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Trying to understand something I am reading. If you read the following, to what religious traditions do you think the author is referring? traditions that protect their “founding documents from critical analysis” or use “violence to prevent its members from converting to another faith,” What is the first and second religious traditions? Thank you, Marleen The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-306960- [EMAIL PROTECTED]: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: neoliberalists vs. socialists
Ok, I want to define the significance of the term left movements used by the Master in Selections of the Writings. I need to know the differences between this term and the current politic parties and governments of the left side. Dear Hasan, Unfortunately this is from a talk and I don't know whether or not we have the Persian transcript for it. It would be interesting to know what term got translated as left. I have always assumed Abdu'l-Baha was referring to the rise of communism. warmest, Susan The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: neoliberalists vs. socialists
Ah, so it is from the Writings, not a talk. I'll check on Tarjuman and find out what phrase was translated as Movement of the Left. In any case, all the things Abdu'l-Baha predicted occurred during the interwar period before WWII. - Original Message - From: Barbara Clements [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Tuesday, May 8, 2007 2:20 pm Subject: Re: neoliberalists vs. socialists To: Baha'i Studies bahai-st@list.jccc.edu The entire paragraph is: Praise be to Him, ye are acquainted with the various laws, institutions and principles of the world; today nothing short of these divine teachings can assure peace and tranquillity to mankind. But for these teachings, this darkness shall never vanish, these chronic diseases shall never be healed; nay, they shall grow fiercer from day to day. The Balkans will remain discontented. Its restlessness will increase. The vanquished Powers will continue to agitate. They will resort to every measure that may rekindle the flame of war. Movements, newly-born and world-wide in their range, will exert their utmost effort for the advancement of their designs. The Movement of the Left will acquire great importance. Its influence will spread. (Abdu'l-Baha, Selections from the Writings of Abdu'l- Baha, p. 249) I think the Movement of the Left Abdu'l-Baha is referring to is the communist/socialist movements that were gaining influence during his lifetime and did indeed become important (powerful) and spread. The spread of communism did kindle the flame of war, particularly in Africa and South America, and of course the Cold War. And more recently, the socialists have had power in many European countries but are now more pacifistic than their violent revolutionary predecessors who were around during the time of Abdu'l-Baha. Barbara Clements At 11:14 PM 5/7/2007, Hasan Elias wrote: Ok, I want to define the significance of the term left movements used by the Master in Selections of the Writings. I need to know the differences between this term and the current politic parties and governments of the left side. The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-306591- [EMAIL PROTECTED]: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: neoliberalists vs. socialists
?: Movements, newly-born and world-wide in their range, will exert their utmost effort for the advancement of their designs. The Movement of the Left will acquire great importance. Its influence will spread. - 'Abdu'l-Bahá wrote in Selections of the Writings - Dear Hasan, I'm not sure what you are asking but in the above Abdu'l-Baha is making a prophecy it seems to me. But if you want to see some clear political judgements being made, read Advent of Divine Justice. warmest, Susan The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: Prayer by the Beloved Guardian found in a prayerbook Nasaimu'r-Rahman
I'm not sure I find that a compelling argument. After all, if it were true, then the Guardian would have translated nothing at all. Dear Scott, I'm not sure I understand your logic here. I think it more likely that he wrote the prayers in Persian for the Persian friends, but never felt that they were important enough to translate when there were so many writings from the Bab and Abaha`u'llah and his grandfather Abdu'l Baha to justify spending his time on them. I think that is what I'm saying. warmest, Susan The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: Prayer by the Beloved Guardian found in a prayerbook Nasaimu'r-Rahman
It's the same reason he discouraged people from displaying photos of himself. Dear Scott, I'm not sure it is the same. The Persian believers have entire prayer books full of his prayers. We do have a couple of prayers written by the Guardian. The one he wrote after the passing of Bahiyyih Khanum comes especially to mind. I think we don't have translations of his prayers into English for the same reason Baha'u'llah's Arabic Writings are not translated into Persian. Baha'u'llah wrote Persian prefectly well just as the Guardian wrote English perfectly well. If they wished it in those languages they would have written it that way. warmest, Susan The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: existence of God
LOL. I have dogs and cats too. It seems they dream. But the Master says something like without seeing you see, but the dogs and cats with eyes closed also see in dreams no? Probably. At least my dog seems to be chasing a rabbit. It would seem that even with animals the imagination is more powerful than earthly limitations. warmest, Susan The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: Prayer by the Beloved Guardian found in a prayerbook Nasaimu'r-Rahman
Thank you for bringing this to my attention. I did not know about that directive or I wouldn't have asked. Does anyone have a source where Shoghi Effendi says this? Dear Larry, I don't think there is any directive. But given the fact that so many of Baha'u'llah and Abdu'l-Baha's prayers have yet to be translated, why focus on the Guardian's. He could have written anything in English he wished. warmest, Susan The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: UHJ on Ruhi
Dear David, I don't think of the Universal House of Justice as an individual person having a will which 'wants' something beyond what they explicitly ask for. warmest, Susan - Original Message - From: David Friedman [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Monday, April 23, 2007 1:29 am Subject: UHJ on Ruhi To: Baha'i Studies bahai-st@list.jccc.edu I may be wrong, but I believe the current attitude of the House is that Ruhi isn't for everyone and that if a person doesn't like it they don't have to do it. I want to clarify this is correct. If it is I'm wondering if this is just all they feel prudent to say, that they would really prefer everyone to do it to support the institutions. That is the only reason I do it. Do the House want us to do it regardless? David The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. _ Live Search delivers results the way you like it. Try live.com now! http://www.live.com __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-299463- [EMAIL PROTECTED]: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: RE: Haifa gardens: Cost and utility?
Dear Brent, According to what a House member told me, there is a statement from the Guardian to the effect that the House of Justice will be needed to consolidate the Lesser Peace. That is why they were so determined to finish the Arc before the end of the century. There needs to be a dignified place for the House to receive dignitaries when that time comes. Also, I don't think we always appreciate the impact that such places can have. About sixty people a year become Baha'is as a result of seeing the Baha'i Temple in Wilmette. warmest, Susan The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Wilmette Institute
Dear Friends on the winews, academics, and highered listservers: The Wilmette Institute's course on the development of the Baha'i community in the context of the Five Year Plan has been undergoing a lot of revising in the last week or so. The Universal House of Justice's recent message about Baha'i elections has been added to it. The very important annual message of the American National Spiritual Assembly in its annual report (which apparently parallels some themes in the Universal House of Justice's Ridvan message) has also inspired the course planners to rethink parts of the course. For these reasons, we are pushing the course's start date back to May 1. The course now has the following study units: 1. Introduction 2. What is a Community, in general? 3. What is a Baha'i Community? 4. What is the Five Year Plan for Community Building? 5. What is the Role of the Institutions in Community Building? 6. Integration and Conclusion As you can see, the course is meant to be a significant contribution to the Five Year Plan; a chance to review the existing guidance from the Baha'i World Center about community building and the roles of Spiritual Assemblies in the process. Community building is a key idea behind the core activities; they are meant to create something that is attractive to inquirers (not just the core activities themselves, but a networked, unified, and transformed community of believers). We hope you can join us in the conversation about how to accomplish this goal. The course price is $75 for most adults; $60 for students, pioneers, and seniors; and $150 for groups (which can be as large as you wish). For more information: http://www.wilmetteinstitute.us.bahai.org ; 877- wilmette (877-945-6388) The Wilmette Institute: On-Line and On-Site Learning Center The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Remunerations in bahá'í offices
Dear Hasan, Theoretically all jobs in Baha'i offices are volunteer services, not occupations. People are paid for them if they cannot otherwise serve. In the US we have three paid secretaries and one paid treasurer on the NSA, but there are many NSA who don't pay their officers at all. Generally Counsellors and ABMs are not paid, but if an ABM could not otherwise serve, they may receive some renumeration. The expenses of all of these should, of course, be reimbursed. warmest, Susan - Original Message - From: Hasan Elias [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Thursday, April 12, 2007 11:41 pm Subject: Remunerations in bahá'í offices To: Baha'i Studies [EMAIL PROTECTED] Remunerations in bahá'í offices Any of you can answer what is the criterion to determinate which is a SERVICE and which is a JOB inside bahá'í occupations. Counselors, ABMs, officers of NSAs. Do some of them receive money? Thanks. http://hasaneliasperu.blogspot.com/ The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. __ Correo Yahoo! Espacio para todos tus mensajes, antivirus y antispam ¡gratis! Regístrate ya - http://correo.espanol.yahoo.com/ __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-294456- [EMAIL PROTECTED]: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Recent House letter
My guess of what Shoghi Effendi meant when he spoke of varied elements in the community would relate to the skills different people can offer. Certainly not to making sure we have a diverse mix of ethnic groups on the Assembly. Dear David, Why is that certain? I can't see how Shoghi Effendi could have been more clear. He says only those who best combine the qualities. The House letter isn't saying anything different. But there are often a number of people who combine these qualities and when they do there is no reason not to make things like diversity and gender equity a consideration as well. I can't see how the new advice is not disregarding this? I don't see how it is. If what I'm hearing is correct the House is now saying that we don't have to vote for the best nine people. No, they are simply ackowledging the fact that there might well be more than nine, and when there are we have other things we can consider. tell us to regard personalities (to achieve diversity). Where is there anything in that letter about personalities? I realize the House isn't infallible as far as interpretation, but I wouldn't expect them to err. I'll now have a read of their message. This isn't an issue of interpretation. It is an issue involving electorial proceedures which the Guardian himself admitted the House has ultimate authority over. In fact, he indicated that his own policies were only tentative pending the election of the House. warmest, Susan The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: reflection on future bahá'í society
I agree with the feeling that education for all should mean free education. Dear Loic, The thing is that the Aqdas doesn't talk about free education for all, it talks about free education for those who can't afford it. But ordinarily, according to the Aqdas the father is responsible for the education of his children and if he refuses to pay for it and is able to, the House of Justice can take the amount necessary for this from him. But I believe some people would like to work as farmer or mechanician, as soon as these activities will no longer be seen and paid as poor work. They aren't poor work now. Most farmers and mechanics make a good living in the US at least. warmest, Susan The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: Recent House letter
Doesn't the word only imply that only what is mentioned here can be considered? The House makes various appeals to Shoghi Effendi in the relevant paragraph, but a quotation is noticeably absent when they say: From among the pool of those whom the elector believes to be qualified to serve, selection should be made with due consideration given to such other factors as age distribution, diversity, and gender. Where did they get that from? Where did Shoghi Effendi talk about those factors? Dear David, The Guardian doesn't have to have mentioned those. Electorial proceedures fall ultimately under the purview of the authority of the Universal House of Justice, not the Guardianship. warmest, Susan The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: reflection on future bahá'í society
This means that free and obligatory education would cause people freedom to choose their academic plan, Dear Hasan, I don't get the impression from the Writings that education will necessarily be free. In fact the Aqdas requires a father educate his children and only if he cannot afford to do so does the House of Justice step in. For me, this raises 2 first questions: What will be the criterion to determinate which people go to what career or office or business? Who will determinate that and how can be that be done? I would expect it would be the same criteria that determines the career paths most people choose in countries where education is already readily available. We gravitate to where our talents lie. I did not think about going to medical school because I've no great aptitude for science and besides, I hate needles and blood. warmest, Susan The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: Recent House letter
Dear David, Look at the last sentence from the letter written on the Guardian's behalf and its emphasis on 'varied.' It seems to me this is very much in accord with the House's letter: The Assembly should be representative of the choicest and most varied and capable elements in every Baha'i community. (From a letter of the Guardian to an individual believer, August 11, 1933: The Spiritual Character of Baha'i Elections, p. 3 warmest, Susan The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: reflection on future bahá'í society
Well, how obligatory education is obligatory if it is not free? Dear Hasan, It is obligatory because the Aqdas requires a father to educate his son. If the father fails to do so the House of Justice has the right to take the money from the father. If he cannot afford it, then the House of Justice or someone else should pay for the education. warmest, Susan The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: Ruhi
accelerated courses ignore completely the praxis. Dear Hasan, And that's why when A clusters are created by using accelerated courses without implementing the practices growth does not occur. It's self-defeating. If Ruhi is anything at all, it *is* the practices. warmest, Susan The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: Ruhi
In order to advance to an A cluster a certain number of people must complete a few of the courses. Dear David, Not a 'few' of the courses. In order to become an A cluster there must be 30-50 people who have completed the *entire sequence* of courses. Since I don't really learn anything or enjoy Ruhi I was wondering if there is some way one can 'do' a course without going in a course with others. Would I be able to do it in my own time and write my answers in the book and then get it checked off by a tutor? The short answer to your question is no. Besides, there is no real 'checking off' because there are not supposed to be any right or wrong answers (despite the fact the questions are close-ended. That way I could do it quicker rather than prolonging the agony. Sorry. Suffering is. ;-} Personally, I wouldn't do Ruhi just to be part of the statistics that make us an A cluster. I'm taking and tutoring those courses where I think I can be of real service and ignoring the rest. warmest, Susan The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: Ruhi
What kind of cult would the Faith be if you were allowed to do that;-?! Seriously, taking the courses by yourself would destroy their whole purpose which is not to teach us certain things but to get us as a community *doing* certain things. So the books are useless without the practices. And one of the things you are supposed to learn to do is how to tutor these study circles. That's not going to happen by just reading the book. warmest, Susan The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: Ruhi
There are many examples like these. Maybe a facilitator, out of courtesy, would not say That answer is wrong, but an answer can still be wrong or right, even if no one calls it that. The notion that there are no right or wrong answers may hold for some open ended questions, but for certain questions, that notion is silly. Dear Tim, I agree. But the facilitators are trained in Book Seven not to consider any answers wrong. In my view, though, it flies against the design of the materials themselves which are close-ended. I suspect that what happened is that while these questions were designed to have right and wrong answers, a lot of participators rightly pointed out that things were often not that black and white. Tutors that approached their task too rigidly were alienating the participants. Book Seven which is aimed at training tutors, was actually written after a lot of bad experinces with rigid tutors using a rigid curriculum. So the emphasis in Book Seven is on flexibility, but in my mind the material doesn't easily lend itself to that. And tutors are often flexible in the one area which they shouldn't be, namely insisting that participants to do the practices. They'd rather have everyone read every passage two or three times and do nothing about it. warmest, Susan The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: Home visits
In a recent cluster meeting it had a list of things like home visits and devotional meetings that people could aim to take part in. It seems to me that home visits can be limited by ones age and gender. I'm 29 and most people in my community are middle aged. If I rang one of them up asking if I could come over I don't imagine they'd be particularly keen. Dear David, You might be surprised. As far as youth are concerned I wouldn't even bother trying any of the girls as they would think I was making a move on them and probably come up with an excuse. Home visits are usually aimed at new or inactive believers anyhow, though where these are lacking sometimes Baha'is just practice on one another. It seems to me that home visits to the former ought to be done in teams anyhow. At least at first until you get to know the person well. warmest, Susan The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: proselytize/teach
Yes, the dictionary isn't of much help when it comes to understanding what the Guardian meant by not proselytizing. - Original Message - From: M Chase [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Monday, March 26, 2007 3:13 pm Subject: Re: proselytize/teach To: Baha'i Studies bahai-st@list.jccc.edu What I found odd about that was the OED didn't mention the pressure aspect but defined it as conversion: proselyte, v. trans. To make a proselyte of; to cause to come over or turn from one opinion, belief, creed, or party to another; esp. to convert from one religious faith or sect to another; to proselytize. proselyte, n. 1. One who has come over from one opinion, belief, creed, or party to another; a convert. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What's the difference between proselytizing and teaching? The way the Guardian uses the term it seems to apply to any behavior which might put undue pressure on a contact to become a Baha'i. warmest, Susan The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-284713- [EMAIL PROTECTED]: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: beast
Who can say what this mean: And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him And who can say who is that beast, is it the Umayyad? Dear Hasan, That's what Abdu'l-Baha indicates: The beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them: [1] this beast means the Umayyads who attacked them from the pit of error, and who rose against the religion of Muhammad and against the reality of Ali -- in other words, the love of God. [1 Cf. Rev. 11:7.] (Abdu'l-Baha, Some Answered Questions, p. 51) But I don't think the meaning is exclusive to that. Revelations, like the Book of Daniel and the Book of Enoch or even the Tablet of the Holy Mariner are using a certain well-known set of imagery to describe what happens whenever a Manifestation appears. Most scholars would suggest that the number of the Beast (666) was the numerical value of the name of one of the Roman Emperors that was persecuting the early Christians. Abdu'l-Baha indicated it refers to the year in which the Umayyads were reigning. I think both things can be true. warmest, Susan The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: Genius
Dear Hasan, You mean genies or jinn, not genius. :-} Besides the quote from the letter written on behalf of the Guardian which you cited, I can add a little more which I think I got from Khazeh at one point or another. According to the Qur'an the Jinn are made from fire, unlike humanity which was made from clay. It was for this reason that Shaytan (Satan) one of the Jinn refused to bow down and worship Adam which God commanded him, saying arrogantly that he was of pure fire whereas Adam was made of clay. It was this sin which caused Satan's fall. The Baha'i Writings consistently use the term 'jinn' in a symbolic manner and reject the notion of ghosts, goblins and things that go bump in the night as the quote you cited indicated. In the Amr va Khalq, vol. 2, pp 161-164 'Abdu'l-Baha suggests that while the jinn might signify be people who are created with the fire of the love of God, etc. it can also refer to people who reject God's Manifestation (hence Adam) because of their haughtiness and arrogance. But there is another passage, where He suggests that jinn are those persons whose belief or denial is hidden and unknown. warmest, Susan The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: beast
Dear Hasan, If it is the same documentary on the anti-Christ which appeared on the history channel it is an excellent documentary. warmest, Susan Susan thanks for answer, I remember I saw a documentary in Discovey channel, christian theologians interpret 666 this way. But is clear that the Ummayad acted as beasts. [EMAIL PROTECTED] escribió: Who can say what this mean: And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him And who can say who is that beast, is it the Umayyad? Dear Hasan, That's what Abdu'l-Baha indicates: The beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them: [1] this beast means the Umayyads who attacked them from the pit of error, and who rose against the religion of Muhammad and against the reality of Ali -- in other words, the love of God. [1 Cf. Rev. 11:7.] (Abdu'l-Baha, Some Answered Questions, p. 51) But I don't think the meaning is exclusive to that. Revelations, like the Book of Daniel and the Book of Enoch or even the Tablet of the Holy Mariner are using a certain well-known set of imagery to describe what happens whenever a Manifestation appears. Most scholars would suggest that the number of the Beast (666) was the numerical value of the name of one of the Roman Emperors that was persecuting the early Christians. Abdu'l-Baha indicated it refers to the year in which the Umayyads were reigning. I think both things can be true. warmest, Susan The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-280775- [EMAIL PROTECTED]: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu http://hasaneliasperu.blogspot.com/ __ Correo Yahoo! Espacio para todos tus mensajes, antivirus y antispam ¡gratis! Regístrate ya - http://correo.espanol.yahoo.com/ __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-281013- [EMAIL PROTECTED]: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st
Re: genies :)
Dear Hasan, I think both clay and fire can be understood metaphorically. warmest, Susan - Original Message - From: Hasan Elias [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Sunday, March 18, 2007 10:19 pm Subject: genies :) To: Baha'i Studies bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Thanks for answer Susan, if there are made of fire, are they human like us, what the fire means? Thanks again. [EMAIL PROTECTED] escribió: Dear Hasan, You mean genies or jinn, not genius. :-} Besides the quote from the letter written on behalf of the Guardian which you cited, I can add a little more which I think I got from Khazeh at one point or another. According to the Qur'an the Jinn are made from fire, unlike humanity which was made from clay. It was for this reason that Shaytan (Satan) one of the Jinn refused to bow down and worship Adam which God commanded him, saying arrogantly that he was of pure fire whereas Adam was made of clay. It was this sin which caused Satan's fall. The Baha'i Writings consistently use the term 'jinn' in a symbolic manner and reject the notion of ghosts, goblins and things that go bump in the night as the quote you cited indicated. In the Amr va Khalq, vol. 2, pp 161-164 'Abdu'l-Baha suggests that while the jinn might signify be people who are created with the fire of the love of God, etc. it can also refer to people who reject God's Manifestation (hence Adam) because of their haughtiness and arrogance. But there is another passage, where He suggests that jinn are those persons whose belief or denial is hidden and unknown. warmest, Susan The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-280777- [EMAIL PROTECTED]: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu http://hasaneliasperu.blogspot.com/ __ Correo Yahoo! Espacio para todos tus mensajes, antivirus y antispam ¡gratis! Regístrate ya - http://correo.espanol.yahoo.com/ __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-281014- [EMAIL PROTECTED]: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe:
Re: Too stupid to be saved?
Baha'u'llah doesn't use the word 'saved' that passage you cited. Okay, but doesn't it seem obvious that we can infer that meaning? Dear David, It is a misleading appropriation of Christian vocabulary. Baha'is are not obsessed with individual salvation the way Christians are and we shouldn't project it into our Writings except when it is explicitly there as in Abdu'l-Baha's Tablet regarding salvation and the Covenant. I'm just interested in the Baha'i view on why a person does not believe. Well, here's a reason Baha'u'llah gave: We have admonished all the loved ones of God to take heed lest the hem of Our sacred vesture be smirched with the mire of unlawful deeds, or be stained with the dust of reprehensible conduct. We have, moreover, exhorted them to fix their gaze upon whatsoever hath been revealed in Our Tablets. Had their inner ears been attentive to the Divine counsels which have shone forth from the Day Spring of the Pen of the All-Merciful, and hearkened unto His Voice, most of the peoples of the earth would have by now been adorned with the ornament of His guidance. (Baha'u'llah, Gleanings from the Writings of Baha'u'llah, p. 240) That may not be the only reason someone is not a Baha'i, but it is the only one we have any control over, so let's concentrate on this. warmest, Susan The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: Too stupid to be saved?
The Baha'i Writings say one must believe in and follow the laws of the Manifestation to be saved: Dear David, Baha'u'llah doesn't use the word 'saved' that passage you cited. I don't think it is our place to make judgements as to why others believe or don't believe. We should concern ourselves with our own spiritual condition not that of others. warmest, Susan The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: Tabernacle of Unity
Dear Donald, I'll have to ask Rob, but in my experience anyone who needs the discount gets it. warmest, Susan - Original Message - From: Donald Strong [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Tuesday, March 6, 2007 3:27 am Subject: Tabernacle of Unity To: Baha'i Studies bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Please define what a senior is for the purpose of the course. The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
ABS Annual Meeting
31st Annual Conference of the Association for Bahá'í Studies-North America Mississauga, Ontario - August 16-19, 2007 Scholarship and Community-Building Theme Statement Community is the organic entity in which human spiritual and material potential can emerge. It is where people interact and where they try to enact the knowledge received from both spiritual insight and from the pursuit of sciences, arts, and humanities. The process of building a new kind of community, at once world-embracing and locally rooted, must acknowledge the community as a comprehensive unit of civilisation1 and its capacity to set a new course in social evolution.2 Within the community, those pursuing scholarship, through whatever diverse paths, can play specific roles. They not only contribute to the community's evolution through their expertise3, but also are an integral part of the dynamic of all community life. This dynamic changes and grows with new understandings of human realities, which in turn stimulate new knowledge and new ways of sharing that knowledge. 'Abdu'l-Bahá, defining the characteristics of the spiritually learned, advised that they should acquire both spiritual and material perfections in order to serve society, should be knowledgeable in diverse religious, cultural, political, historical and scientific knowledge, and should arise with complete sincerity and purity of purpose to educate people.4 The Bahá'í efforts in community building require a profound understanding and exploration of the Guardian's statement that, The principle of the Oneness of mankind -- the pivot round which all the teachings of Bahá'u'lláh revolve . . . implies an organic change in the structure of present day society, a change such as the world has not yet experienced.5 The Association for Bahá'í Studies executive committee invites both new and more experienced presenters to explore the theme of scholarship and community building at its annual conference in Toronto. Possible sub-topics might include: scholarship and social responsibility, the Five Year Plan, religious scholarship without priesthood, creating new paradigms of scholarship and education, and new ideas of community and relationship within the physical and life sciences, amongst others. Notes: 1. Universal House of Justice, Ridván 1996 to the Bahá'ís of the World. 2. Universal House of Justice, Ridván 1984 to the National Spiritual Assembly of the United States. 3. Universal House of Justice, 21 August 1977 to an individual, Scholarship compilation, selection #39. 4. 'Abdu'l-Bahá, Secret of Divine Civilization, 35-36. 5. Shoghi Effendi, The World Order of Bahá'u'lláh, p. 43. To read the complete quotes, please click here: Theme Statement Call for Presentations Proposals are invited for presentations and workshops on (but not limited to) the above themes, as well as performing arts presentations. Proposals must be submitted on-line (submission form). Potential presenters unable to submit on-line may contact the address below for further information on alternate means of submission. Presentation content should go beyond the overview and summary approach typical of a summer school course or talk to explore an original question or proposition through a clearly described method or theoretical approach. While many presentations are in the style of academic talks or workshop-discussions, the use of the arts and other diverse approaches is also encouraged. All presentations should engage the participants in review and in contributing to the development of the ideas raised. Presentations must be substantially original work, unpublished and not previously presented. Papers will be considered for publication in The Journal of Bahá'í Studies. Proposals are especially welcome from youth and first-time ABS presenters. Guidelines for submissions are available on the ABS website, a nd you can also contact ABS if you would like assistance with preparing a proposal. The deadline for submitting proposals is 15 April 2007. Association for Bahá'í Studies 34 Copernicus St., Ottawa, ON Canada K1N 7K4 Tel.: (613) 233-1903; fax: (613) 233-3644 or email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Registration and Hotel Information Hotel reservations must be made directly with the conference hotel, the Delta Meadowvale Resort and Conference Centre, 6750 Mississauga Road, Mississauga, Ontario, L5N 2L3; Tel.: 905-542-4003; toll-free reservation number: 800-422-8238 (Between the hours of 8:00 am to 6:00 pm Monday to Friday). Mention the Association for Bahá'í Studies conference to receive the special conference rate. Room rates (in CDN dollars): $109 single/double; $129 triple/quad. The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be
Tabernacle of Unity
To all members of the WINEWS, ACADEMICS, and HIGHERED: The Wilmette Institute is pleased to offer a three-month web-based course on an important new translation of tablets by Baha'u'llah, *The Tabernacle of Unity,* starting March 15. The main tablet was revealed for Manikchi Limji Hataria, a prominent Zoroastrian who visited Baha'u'llah in Baghdad and became a major force in the emancipation of Iran's Zoroastrian community. Manikchi was not satisfied with Baha'u'llah's answers and his employee, the great Baha'i scholar Mirza Abu'l-Fadl, wrote to Baha'u'llah about Manikchi's remaining concerns, prompting a lengthy and detailed second tablet. A veteran Baha'i will recognize many passages previously translated by Shoghi Effendi, which we can now see in context. The other three tablets were written to Baha'is of Zoroastrian background and are notable for dealing with questions asked from a Zoroastrian point of view. The tablets are particularly valuable for those interested in interfaith dialogue and the Baha'i relationship to other religions. The course will read the tablets slowly, one by one, provide whatever contextual information available, and include study questions. This is the first time the course has been run, so it will rely on student projects to flesh out the content. The course costs $150 for most individuals; $120 for pioneers, seniors, and students; and $300 for local study groups. To create a local study group, canvas your area to determine interest; register yourself and the group at once and pay the $300; give the group a name and password when registering it; give out the group name and password to others, so they can join it for free; then collect the fair share of the fee from the group members. All members of the group will have the same mentor, who may call the group during its meetings. The Wilmette Institute: On-Line and On-Site Learning Center, http://www.wilmetteinstitute.us.bahai.org ; 877-wilmette (877-945- 6388). The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: to say the truth (in spanish, :) )
Thanks for answer, if this armed man says that he will kill everyone who is bahá'í? We accept this as martyrdom? Could this be martyrdom or foolishness? Dear Hasan, If such a person were to ask me where the Baha'is were, I would not tell him and I might even give some false information (presuming it would not endanger non-Baha'is.) If he were to ask me if I were a Baha'i I might waffle a bit (as I did in a job interview once, since this is an illegal question) but I would suffer martyrdom before I deny it (at least I hope I would.) warmest, Susan The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: to say the truth (in spanish, :) )
Susan, please could you explain if the use of hikmat allows to lie in some instances? (I'm not talking about confessions) Dear Hasan, I know that Baha'is *did* use it as an excuse to lie on occasion. Whether that was right, I'm not prepared to say. The only instance I know of where Abdu'l-Baha Himself stated that a lie was justifiable was if a doctor lied to raise the spirit of their patient. But if a bunch of armed gunmen came to your house demanding to know where you your daughters were, I think you would be justified in telling a lie. When the welfare and lives of human beings are at stake, I think lies are justified in most cases. There are other cases where we sacrifice our very lives for the truth. Still, I don't think it would be accurate to say that a Baha'i cannot always tell the truth. For most of us choices like the above never come up. warmest, Susan The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: Tests
It says in the Writings that God doesn't burden a soul beyond its capacity. I'm just wondering how one could determine what a person's capacity is, so as to know what being burdened beyond one's capacity would look like. According to the Writings those who have committed suicide obviously haven't been burdened beyond their capacity. Dear David, The proverb in question was written by Abdu'l-Baha in reference to how much people should contribute to the Fund. I've also seen the House quote it in reference to acts of service. I haven't seen it applied to tests. warmest, Susan The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: Tests
I always thought the proverb in question applied any and all tests. Dear Dean, The context in which I've read the proverb did not say anything about tests whatsoever. It seems to have more to do with our not feeling over-burdened by obligations. Here are the contexts in which I found the passage: All the friends of God . . . should contribute to the extent possible, however modest their offering may be. God doth not burden a soul beyond its capacity. Such contributions must come from all centers and all believers. . . . O Friends of God! Be ye assured that in place of these contributions, your agriculture, your industry, and your commerce will be blessed by manifold increases, with goodly gifts and bestowals. He who cometh with one goodly deed will receive a tenfold reward. There is no doubt that the living Lord will abundantly confirm those who expend their wealth in His path. 'Abdu'l-Bahá, in Bahá'í Prayers, p. 84 (Compilations, NSA USA - Developing Distinctive Baha'i Communities) Although potentialities differ in degree, not a single soul is completely bereft of capacity. Indeed, progress in this world is dependent on that preordained measure and the manner in which people fulfill their God-given potentiality. Accordingly our responsibility is commensurate with our capacity, as it is said: God will not burden any soul beyond its capacity. (The Universal House of Justice, 1997 Mar, BAHA 154 - From Persian, To Iranian Believers) In both contexts the messages seems to be that we can all serve but no one should imagine that God wants us to be overburdened. Keeping that passage in mind can prevent burn-out. warmest, Susan The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: to say the truth
Well, I am someone who likes clear answers, I suppose we all agree with the fact that a bahai can't say the truth everytime. Do we agree? Dear Hasan, If like could be that black and white, then we would tell the truth all the time.;-} warmest, Susan The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: People of the Book
While the Magi or Fire Worshippers are mentioned in the Qu'ran, I don't think they're counted as People of the Book. Of course some Muslim scholars have a lose interpretation of this, and I have heard of some Moghuls even justifying People of the Book status for Hindus and Buddhists. Dear Rich, In the strictest sense the Kitab referred to in the phrase Ahl-i Kitab or People of the Book is the Bible. But you are right that in practice it has been much more loosely defined. And this was so long before the Mughals. When the Arabs concquered Sind in the eighth century the Bramans told them that their Vedas were the oldest scriptures in the world. Muslims took their word for this and assumed that they were therefore written by the oldest prophet in the world, namely Adam. Ali is said to have made a covenant with the Zoroastrians of Persian wherein he recognized their status as dhimmis. Later Zoroaster was presumed to be the same prophet as Abraham, a mistake which Abu'l-Fadl repeats in Baha'i Proofs. warmest, Susan The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: Tests
Tests don't stop until we die in any case. Would you please tell me where in the writings it says that there will be no more tests in the worlds after this one? Dear Tim, I'm presuming that is the case because of what Abdu'l-Baha indicated about progress in the afterlife being totally dependent on the will of God rather than our own free will. warmest, Susan The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: Tests
How is one to determine whether they have enough tests in their life? And if we grow from tests aren't we supposed to want more? Yes, we are *supposed* to want more. But we don't do the determiantion of when we've had enough. Tests don't stop until we die in any case. warmest, Susan The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: Praying for peace
Many people say prayers for peace. For there to peace requires people to turn away from evil. I was wondering how God could answer prayers for peace without violating free will. If an answer to a prayer means God making more peace then wouldn't this require Him intervening to make people better? People decide their own fate. Do prayers for peace even work? A lot of people pray during wars yet I don't see it doing anything. Dear David, You are going to drive yourself crazy with such questions. Most of us pray for things all the time which aren't going to happen unless the people we are praying for cooperate. For instance, we pray for them to be guided to the Faith. These things are never simply an issue of God's will versus human will. Life is about the two interacting together. warmest, Susan The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: Tests
I don't recall seeing this before. I think I know what the benefits of this world are, but what are teh benefits of the next world spoken about? Dear David, What the Bab is talking about is seeking heaven or paradise for its own sake instead of seeking God Himself. . The Muslim conception of paradise was that it was a beautiful garden where people would recline on couches and be served by dark-eyed damsels. warmest, Susan The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: Tests
Are you saying you think the answer to my question Does God intervene to make bad things happen so as to test people? is yes? Asking surely indicates wanting God to intervene to make something happen? Dear David, I'm not one to speculate on what God will or will not do. I think of God as initimately involved with the universe, so much so that the molecules would not hold together without His constant involvement. But there is the Hidden Will of God and the Revealed Will. We can't hope to understand that Hidden Will by which holocausts and catastrophes occur. We need to focus on God's revealed Will through Baha'u'llah and follow His guidance as to how to grow through them. I don't think there is any profit in speculating about in what sense God is sending us tests. Like that story of the three brothers I recounted, these kinds of speculations will just drive you crazy. warmest, Susan The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: Tests
Why didn't God send any tests? Well, you could also ask for them. But God has been so bountiful to me on this account that I've never felt any compulsion to pray for tests. The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: Mahabad
The Prophets of Mahábád, together with Zoroaster, were twenty- eight in number. Dear Richard, My understanding is that this statement is not from Baha'u'llah but was a quotation from Manakji's letter. Manakji wrongly believed the Dasatir was an authentic text whereas it was probably written in India around in the 17th century. Baha'u'llah does not attempt to correct Manakji on this point, He simply proceeds to the question Manajki raises. I plan to write a paper to present at the ABS on this subject, but I haven't worked everything out yet. So stay tuned. warmest, Susan The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: Status of Promulgation
The Guardian quotes a number of times from Promulgation in his letters and in God Passes By. He does not regard it as unreliable. Dear Brent, The Guardian sometimes quotes pilgrim's notes. That doesn't make them reliable as a body. At most, it might give some status to the specific passage being quoted. I'm not sure whether or not we have the original transcript where Abdu'l-Baha refers to the 'missing link.' Nor do I know any place where the Guardian quotes that passage. warmest, Susan The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: Luck and salvation
Dear David, Your question reminds me of the old Mutazalite/Asharite [Free will vs. Predestination] debate. There is a story associated with al-Asharite's breaking away from his Mutazalite teacher. You can read it hear: al-Ashari posed to his teacher the cases of three brothers whose fates or final destinations were totally different. The first brother lived and died as a believer. The second brother lived and died as a non-believer or an infidel. The third brother died when he was still small or minor. The first brother was going to the Paradise because he chose to become the faithful or the believer and he did the good deeds. So the case of first brother was in line with the Mutazilite concept of free will and the Mutazilite concept of God's doing the better and the best things for human beings. God surely rewards the believer with the good and better life in the Paradise. In this case, the first brother is in the Paradise because of his good faith and good deeds. The second brother is going to be in the Hell because he chose to disbelieve and did the evil deeds. He is in Hell because of his choice and free will. He chose and did the evil faith and deeds and the unavoidable consequence of his choice is the Hell in the hereafter. For the second brother, al-Asharite asked his teacher, what was the better or best thing that God did to him? God permitted the second brother to live and die as an infidel and then to be in the Hell. His teacher replied that God punishes the second brother because he chooses the evil faith and deeds in his life in this world. God is just and His justice makes Him punish the wrong doer and reward the good doer. The third brother is neither in the Paradise nor in the Hell because he did not have enough time to become a believer like his first brother or to become an infidel like his second brother. Again, al- Ashari asked his teacher, what was the better and best thing that God did to the third brother? His teacher replied that God knows the best for him to die when he was still small or minor because if the third brother were to grow up, he would become an infidel or a non-believer like his second brother. Hence, it is better for the third brother to die when he was still small or minor. Al-Ashari said that why did God prolong the life of the second brother even though God knows that he grew up and old and died as an infidel? Being an infidel is not good for the second brother. If the Mutazilite concept of God's doing the better and the best things for human beings was true, as the Mutaziltes claimed, there would be no single infidel living in this world since an infidel is not good to live in this world. In the hereafter, an infidel is going to be in the Hell. God must make all human beings believers because the final rewards for the believers are surely the Paradise in the hereafter, if the Mutazilite concept of God's doing the better and the best things for human beings is an acceptable and reliable concept. In reality, infidels or non- believers are more than believers living in this world. Hence, the Mutazilite concept of God's doing the better and the best things for human beings does not agree with human history in this world. The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. _ Ultimately these are imponderables, we cannot know the answers any more than we can understand God's unknowable essence. What we do know is His will for us as revealed through His Manifestations. And that is what we are responsible for. warmest, Susan __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
House of Justice on James Mock's passing
Dear friends, James Mock's daughter was kind enough to share with me the House of Justice letter of condolence. I also have a letter from the NSA which I'll be posting presently. warmest, Susan TO: The National Spiritual Assembly of the Bahá’ís of the United States DATE: 7 January 2007 Email address: [EMAIL PROTECTED] The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. ___ MESSAGE: The Universal House of Justice has learned with deep sorrow of the sudden passing of James Mock, a steadfast, long-standing servant of the Blessed Beauty, well known for his gentle and caring spirit. Kindly convey its loving sympathy to the members of his dear family and assure them that prayers are being said at the Holy Threshold for the progress of his radiant soul and the solace of their bereft hearts. Department of the Secretariat cc: Shereen Cook Tim Tyson __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: Provenance of an Hadith
but would like proper provenance if available. By provenance do you mean the isnad? The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: There is a power in this Cause...
... far, far, far away from the ken of men and angels; That starts a quote describing the Covenant that instantly struck a chord with me when I read it in The Power of the Covenant series pamphlets published in 1976. Shoghi Effendi quoted about as much of it as I have above and attributed it to Abdu'l-Baha but I am aware that some years back, the Research Department at the World Centre identifiedthe whole quote found in the pamphlets as coming from the diary of Ahmad Sohrab calling it interesting material but not scripture. Dear Dick, I just checked Ahmad Sohrab's diary and he claims to be quoting the Master Himself. Apparently Shoghi Effendi believed this was the case. I would simply identify it to my students as a pilgrim's note and leave it at that. I'm posting the passage from Ahmad Sohrab's diary here. Note he is pretty specific about the circumstances in which this utterance was made. There is a power in the Cause , a mysterious Power, far, far, far, away from the ken of men and angels. That invisible power is the Cause of all these outward activities. It moves the hearts* It rends the mountains. It administers the complicated affairs of the Cause. It inspires the friends. It dashes into a thousand pieces all the forces of opposition. It creates new spiritual worlds. This is a mystery of the Kingdom of Abha. Thus spoke the Beloved, after dictating several wonderful Tablets to MtsrD Harriet 0. Cline, and Mrs, Mabel Rice- Wray of Los Angeles, Miss Harriet Magee of New York, Mrs4 Dixon of Washington, D*C*, Viss orothy Hodgson of Paris, and Miss General Jack of London. warmest, Susan The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: Baha'i considerations about alcohol...
(and someone else can do the research!), I have long understood that non-alcoholic wine and beer AREN'T. They are simply sufficiently reduced in alcohol content as to avoid being labeled as regular beer or wine. One should be able to read labels (at least, in the U.S.) to see if it contains alcohol, I think. Stick to Martinelli's. The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: Baha'i considerations about alcohol...
But as David mentioned earlier - there is non-alcoholic wine available and it can taste just as good as the alcoholic version with meals. Never tell a Frenchman that non-alcoholic wine is just as good.;-} The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: Baha'i considerations about alcohol...
Non-alcoholic wine?! never heard about this! (may be an american creation!) it cannot be wine but just grape-fruits juice! (Frenchman point of view);-) Not exactly. There is sparkling grape juice as well which I quite often buy. But non-alcholic wine is where the grapes were allowed to ferment but then the alcohol removed. As Jeanine points out there is likely to still be some residue of alcohol. warmest, Susan The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Call for papers
31st Annual Conference of the Association for Bahá’í Studies–North America Mississauga, Ontario - August 16-19, 2007 Scholarship and Community-Building Theme Statement Community is the organic entity in which human spiritual and material potential can emerge. It is where people interact and where they try to enact the knowledge received from both spiritual insight and from the pursuit of sciences, arts, and humanities. The process of building a new kind of community, at once world-embracing and locally rooted, must acknowledge the community as a “comprehensive unit of civilisation”1 and its capacity to set a “new course in social evolution.”2 Within the community, those pursuing scholarship, through whatever diverse paths, can play specific roles. They not only contribute to the community’s evolution through their expertise3, but also are an integral part of the dynamic of all community life. This dynamic changes and grows with new understandings of human realities, which in turn stimulate new knowledge and new ways of sharing that knowledge. ‘Abdu’l-Bahá, defining the characteristics of the spiritually learned, advised that they should acquire both spiritual and material perfections in order to serve society, should be knowledgeable in diverse religious, cultural, political, historical and scientific knowledge, and should “arise with complete sincerity and purity of purpose” to educate people.4 The Bahá’í efforts in community building require a profound understanding and exploration of the Guardian’s statement that, “The principle of the Oneness of mankind -- the pivot round which all the teachings of Bahá’u’lláh revolve . . . implies an organic change in the structure of present day society, a change such as the world has not yet experienced.”5 The Association for Bahá’í Studies executive committee invites both new and more experienced presenters to explore the theme of scholarship and community building at its annual conference in Toronto. Possible sub-topics might include: scholarship and social responsibility, the Five Year Plan, religious scholarship without priesthood, creating new paradigms of scholarship and education, and new ideas of community and relationship within the physical and life sciences, amongst others. Notes: 1. Universal House of Justice, Ridván 1996 to the Bahá’ís of the World. 2. Universal House of Justice, Ridván 1984 to the National Spiritual Assembly of the United States. 3. Universal House of Justice, 21 August 1977 to an individual, Scholarship compilation, selection #39. 4. ‘Abdu’l-Bahá, Secret of Divine Civilization, 35-36. 5. Shoghi Effendi, The World Order of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 43. To read the complete quotes, please click here: Theme Statement Call for Presentations Proposals are invited for presentations and workshops on (but not limited to) the above themes, as well as performing arts presentations. Proposals must be submitted on-line (submission form). Potential presenters unable to submit on-line may contact the address below for further information on alternate means of submission. Presentation content should go beyond the overview and summary approach typical of a summer school course or talk to explore an original question or proposition through a clearly described method or theoretical approach. While many presentations are in the style of academic talks or workshop-discussions, the use of the arts and other diverse approaches is also encouraged. All presentations should engage the participants in review and in contributing to the development of the ideas raised. Presentations must be substantially original work, unpublished and not previously presented. Papers will be considered for publication in The Journal of Bahá’í Studies. Proposals are especially welcome from youth and first-time ABS presenters. Guidelines for submissions are available on the ABS website, a nd you can also contact ABS if you would like assistance with preparing a proposal The deadline for submitting proposals is 15 April 2007. Association for Bahá’í Studies 34 Copernicus St., Ottawa, ON Canada K1N 7K4 Tel.: (613) 233-1903; fax: (613) 233-3644 or email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Registration and Hotel Information Hotel reservations must be made directly with the conference hotel, the Delta Meadowvale Resort and Conference Centre, 6750 Mississauga Road, Mississauga, Ontario, L5N 2L3; Tel.: 905-542-4003; toll-free reservation number: 800-422-8238 (Between the hours of 8:00 am to 6:00 pm Monday to Friday). Mention the Association for Bahá’í Studies conference to receive the special conference rate. Room rates (in CDN dollars): $109 single/double; $129 triple/quad. The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected
Re: limits of hikmat, righteous warfare, jihad, etc.
They were basically rejected posts intended for soc.religion.bahai which I felt you were mischaracterizing and then rejecting. That doesn't give you the right to bring it here. As I said, you are no longer welcome on this forum. The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: re: Young earth creationism - expiry date - ?
As a Christian Baha'i, I can assure you that christians people make a clear difference between the Faith in the 7 days of creation of the world (as exposed in the Genese of the Bible)and the scientific knowledge about creation of the Earth, life, and humanity! Perhaps it seems idiot, but I write this because I have already met some baha'i people who really thought that christians people were believing to be all parents of Adam Eve! Dear Loic, Most Catholics are not into such literalism but a lot of evangelicals in the United States are and they tend to dominate religious discussions here. Over here, we tend to forget that most Christians are Catholics. In fact in the part of the country where I live they mostly think Catholics *aren't* Christian! warmest, Susan The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: limits of hikmat, righteous warfare, jihad, etc.
Anyway, I see some risks of censorship when I read some baha'i publications that have been reviewed, corrected, validated, re-reviewed... Dear Loic, What 're-reviewed' are you talking about? warmest, Susan The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: re: Young earth creationism - expiry date - ?
You are right, I have to make the precision. I was talking about Christians people you can meet in Europe : Roman Catholics, Protestants, Anglicans, Orthodox catholics... Dear Loic, Correct me if I'm wrong but I'm under the impression that French Catholics aren't all that religious period and the same thing is true for most Europeans. That's not true in America. About a third of our population will be in church every Sunday compared to maybe 4% of the population of Europe. Here in Mississippi nearly everyone goes to church, often two or three times a week. Anyway I don't know anything about these Young earth creationism believers. Are they one of these evangelicals? Yes, virtually all creationists are evangelicals, but they are divided amongst themselves as to how literally they should take what is thought to be the Biblical chronology of creation. (In all cases, what is the difference if humanity has been created 6000 or 1 million years ago?!) It is all a question of the inerrancy of scripture. warmest, Susan The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: limits of hikmat, righteous warfare, jihad, etc.
What I meant is that I sometimes feel worried when I see so many warnings at the beginning or at the end of some Baha'i writings. examples given: this text has been translated by the X committee, reviewed by the Y committee, approved by Z, and might be later corrected by ZZ... Dear Loic, I've never seen anything like this in any English publications. Do they appear in European languages? The closest thing I know to this are the early Baha'i publications which stated they had been reviewed by a committee. But I think they stopped doing that as soon as the Publishing Trust was formed. That was maybe back in the 30's or 40's. or, on the other hand, this text is only a personal translation and must not be considered as an official bahai publication and must be considered as a personal point of view... I think that may represent the translator himself going overboard. Most of us are content to simply identify it as a provisional translation without going into any long explanation. These kinds of warnings make me think that there is a real danger for Bahai Faith to turn into dogmatism (like the Vatican giving the Imprimatur for advised books, the Nihil obstat for books with nothing against the official faith, but also writing at the Index books such as the DaVinci Code, considered as going against the official believes and so forgiven to the believers). The House of Justice doesn't want to see that as well, which is why in their letter of 1992 addressed to Juan Cole they refused to establish two sets of Baha'i literature, one which passed review and the other which didn't. Your suggestion that an imprimatur system such as used by the Roman Catholic Church would be preferable to the present system of review was considered by the House of Justice, and it has asked us to explain to you the problems that this would present. First of all, it would convey to the reader the false impression that the attitude of the Faith was similar to that of the Roman Catholic Church, summoning up visions of an index of prohibited reading, and all the other associations which you can undoubtedly imagine for yourself. Secondly, it would give force to the erroneous concept that there are two kinds of Bahá'í literature: books which present the official view and those which are the free personal opinions of individual Bahá'ís, thus obscuring the essential Bahá'í differentiation between the Writings of the Báb and Bahá'u'lláh, those of 'Abdu'l-Bahá, the letters of the Guardian and the decisions of the Universal House of Justice, which are authoritative, on the one hand, and all other writings by Bahá'ís on the other, which have no authority at all apart from their own internal reasonableness. That a book has passed review in no way guarantees its correctness; it is merely an assurance by the National Spiritual Assembly concerned that, in its view, the book does not seriously distort the Faith or its Teachings. Thirdly, it would obscure the important fact that the process of review in the Bahá'í Faith is temporary, being limited to this stage of its development when books published by Bahá'ís could seriously mislead the public if they too gravely distort its message. (The Universal House of Justice, 1992 Dec 10, Issues Related to Study Compilation) warmest, Susan The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: limits of hikmat, righteous warfare, jihad, etc.
A simple word of the Faith : the Bayan, which could be easily translated in french by l'Annonce or l'Explication, but people are so afraid to translate that they keep the Bayan in their writings. Dear Loic, When it appears in the Writings we do translate it, normally as 'utterance' as in 'wisdom and utterance' [hikmat va bayan.] But I think you are talking about the name of the book Bayan. It is kept in the original because it is seen as a proper name like Qur'an which literally means 'recitation' or 'reading.' warmest, Susan The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: limits of hikmat, righteous warfare, jihad, etc.
Dear Scott, It would be a mistake to interpret the House's April 7 letter as an attack on the notion of academic freedom. What they are criticizing is the attempt to misuse the term in a Baha'i religious context. Academic freedom is the freedom of teachers, students, and academic institutions to pursue knowledge wherever it may lead, without undue or unreasonable interference on the part of the institutions which employ them. It has nothing to do with the freedom to believe whatever you want in a religious community. Religious communities, after all, are usually defined by their beliefs. Those who don't hold those beliefs don't really belong in the community. When John Locke wrote his famous treatise on Religious Tolerance he was not only defending the write of citizens within a state to follow whatever religion they wish, but he was at the same time defending the right of churches to define their own membership. In other words, for Locke religious tolerance and the right of churches to excommunicate people went hand in hand. warmest, Susan The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: limits of hikmat, righteous warfare, jihad, etc.
I have heard about these evangelical religions, they look to be more efficient than us in terms of number of conversions! ;-) Dear Loic, Yes, there seems to be resurgence of conservatism and literalism in religion all over the world. Our retention, bad as it is, is a bit better however. In most high-growth religions only one in four converts is retained after the first year. In the Baha'i Faith is about 50%. warmest, Susan The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: Year of patience
Personaly I have never felt this repugnance toward my ex-wife. I always respect and appreciate her. but when I realized I was in love with someone else (and not just for a temporary pleasure time) I have prefered to talk with her about this. Dear Loic, I do not think that falling in love with someone else is a valid reason for divorce in the Baha'i Faith. You may not have fallen in love with this person purely for sex, but it is hard to imagine how something like that would happen if you were strictly adhering to Baha'i laws regarding no sex outside of marriage. warmest, Susan The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: limits of hikmat, righteous warfare, jihad, etc.
Dear friends, Gilberto has been forwarding private correspondence to this list without permission. Please do not respond and encourage this kind of behavior. Gilberto, you are no longer welcome here. Susan The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: RE: Holy Grail
In those stories, might the Grail be the holy Sign that fuses both ancient Celtic tribal traditions with the arrival of Christianity? Dear Susan B., That certainly seems to be the function of those sotries. warmest, Susan The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: Holy Grail
Often I have wondered if the mystery of the Holy *Grail *is related to the archangel *Gabriel*, the messenger of the death, of the big news (in the Bible) and the developer of the Qur'án. Dear Badi, What mystery of the Holy Grail? warmest, Susan The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: Holy Grail
Dear Badi, I know what the Holy Grail is, I just don't see that there is any mystery behind it. People just made up a lot of fanciful tales about it. I don't see this has any connection to the Archangel Gabriel at all. I think you are being misled by the fact that the two words sound similiar in English. warmest, Susan The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: RE: The Covenant as Responsiveness
The equivalence between responsiveness shown toward the Lord of the Kingdom and responsiveness toward each of His servants was enunciated by Jesus, in this way: Dear Vaughn, You are quite right. I remembered that passage only a few minutes ago when I was responding to someone on another list also associated the 'do this in rememberance of Me with communion which is the sign of the Christian Covenant. warmest, Susan The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: How much of Islamic culture is actually Arab?
Becasue the Baha'i Faith arose in Persia, our daughters have names in the Farsi form. But does that signify that we regard Persian culture as somehow more authentically Baha'i? The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
The Covenant as Responsiveness
Dear friends, As the last announcement indicated, I'm presenting a paper at the American Academy of Religion this weekend. I've not written the conclusion yet, but I'd like to share with you what I have and get your feedback. warmest, Susan The Covenant as Responsiveness When Baha’is discuss the concept of covenant as it applies to their teachings they usually describe the chain of authority designed to maintain their unity. They typically focus on what is commonly called the Lesser Covenant as embodied in such documents such as the Kitab-i Ahd, Baha’u’llah’s will appointing Abdu’l-Baha as His successor and the Will and Testament of Abdu’l-Baha which appointed Shoghi Effendi as Guardian of the Baha’i Faith after Him and called for the election of the Universal House of Justice. Hence, the Covenant is seen as that which obliges individual Bahá'ís to accept the leadership of Bahá'u'lláh's appointed successors and the administrative institutions of the Faith. But there is another Covenant upon which this lesser Covenant is predicated. Frequently this is called the ‘greater Covenant’, namely the Covenant which God has made with all humanity, wherein He promises us continuing guidance through His Messengers Manifestations as Baha’is call them, while we are obligated to recognize and obey them. It is primarily this greater Covenant I wish to focus my attention on today, for it is my contention that unless our understanding of the Lesser Covenant is grounded in the greater one, the depth of its significance will largely be missed. If we look at this greater Covenant as it has been described and understood throughout much of history we will find that this obligation to recognize and obey has been articulated in terms of responsiveness and remembrance. It is this theme of responsiveness and remembrance that will be examined in this paper. The Baha’i Faith concept of covenant, was not born in a vacuum. It sees itself as a continuation of the Abrahamic line of religions and its concept of covenant is ultimately linked to those traditions. Christians divide their Bible into two sections, the Old and New Testament, the term testament signifying covenant. In Judaism the term covenant in relationship to God appears first in the Torah in connection with the story of Noah wherein God assured Noah that the judgment would not again come to men in the form of a flood; and that the recurrence of the seasons and day and night should not cease. The Adamic exhortation to ‘be fruitful and multiply’ is reaffirmed. Noah and his sons are encouraged to eat all manner of meat, but a taboo is placed on the consumption of animal blood and the shedding of human blood. The rainbow is presented as sign of this covenant.1 Another covenant is made with Abraham when he is asked to leave his homeland and journey to a land God ha s promised to him and his descendents. It is promised that through Him all the nations of the world will be blest.2 Abraham was told to circumcise all the male members of his family as a sign of this Covenant.3 They key covenant of the Torah, however is the one God made with Israel on Mt. Sinai. This Sinai event forms the basis of later depictions of the establishment of the Greater Covenant that God makes with all mankind. While Israel was encamped here in front of the mountain, Moses went up the mountain to God. Then the LORD called to him and said, Thus shall you say to the house of Jacob; tell the Israelites: You have seen for yourselves how I treated the Egyptians and how I bore you up on eagle wings and brought you here to myself. Therefore, if you hearken to my voice and keep my covenant, you shall be my special possession, dearer to me than all other people, though all the earth is mine. You shall be to me a kingdom of priests, a holy nation. That is what you must tell the Israelites. So Moses went and summoned the elders of the people. When he set before them all that the LORD had ordered him to tell them, the people all answered together, Everything the LORD has said, we will do. Then Moses brought back to the LORD the response of the people. 4 It is only after this response is received that Moses go back up the Mountain and the 10 Commandments are revealed. Three days letter this even takes place and is described with these words: On the morning of the third day there were peals of thunder and lightning, and a heavy cloud over the mountain, and a very loud trumpet blast, so that all the people in the camp trembled. But Moses led the people out of the camp to meet God, and they stationed themselves at the foot of the mountain. Mount Sinai was all wrapped in smoke, for the LORD came down upon it in fire. The smoke rose from it as though from a furnace, and the whole mountain trembled violently. The trumpet blast grew louder and louder, while Moses was speaking and God
Re: How much of Islamic culture is actually Arab?
I have been thinking about this question for a few weeks. To what extent is modern global Islamic culture based on Arab culture? Dear Tim, I think it is probably true that Islam has carried more of the 'baggage' of the culture in which it was born than any of the other World Religions. (I'm thinking mostly of Christianity and Buddhism.) I think this is largely because of the importance placed on following the example of the Prophet who was, after all, an Arab. For example this busines of women dressing so they are covered from head to toe? That was really Arab in origin. Veiling was the custom among elite class women in both the Sassanian and Byzantine Empires. It goes back at least as far as ancient Athens and perhaps ancient Mesopotamia. Ironically, it was the egalitarian nature of Islam which caused the practice to extend among nearly all the urban classes. Is the burkha common in, say, Pakistan or Indonesia? Not that common. In Pakistan the usual Islamic dress for women is the sevar va chamis, pants and a tunic along with some kind of head scarf. Women in Indonesia only started wearing head scarfs in large numbers in the last generation. It is important to keep in mind that some of these women (with head scarves, not burkas) are adopting Islamic dress *because* they are entering the work force for the first time. It makes them feel much less vulnerable. And such clothes are certainly more comfortable than high heels and a short skirt. So why do converts almost always take Arab names? Baha'is do something similar; I know lots of Anglo-American or African-American Baha'is named Nabil, or Karim, or Tahirih. Many years ago I even knew a Baha'i child named Shoghi! Do you think that converts to Islam take Arab names because Arab culture is perceived as somehow more authentically Muslim? Do we take Arab names because we see it as more authentically Baha'i? No, usually we take them because they represent some figure in our history which we admire. But normally we give these names to children, we don't change our own names when we convert. The idea of changing your name upon conversion goes back to Christianity where they didn't want baptized Christians to continue to bare names related to pagan dieities. warmest, Susan The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: Year of patience
If a Baha'i is married to a non-Baha'i the non-Baha'i can get a divorce prior to the conclusion ofnbsp;a year of patience.nbsp; They can do this because Baha'i law is subordinate to civil law.nbsp; Dear David, It is possible for a Baha'i to get a civil divorce prior to the end of the year of patience as well, though this is strongly discouraged as being contrary to the spirit of the Year of Patience. What they can't do according to Baha'i law is remarry until the year is up. My question is, if this happens must the Baha'i observe the rest of the year of patience even though divorced, or are they allowed to look for love elsewhere? Yes, they must still observe the Year of Patience. warmest, Susan The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Wilmette Institute
The Wilmette Institute is pleased to offer its course on the Ministry of Shoghi Effendi (1897-1957), again. Guardian of the Bahá'í Faith from 1921 until his passing, Shoghi Effendi devoted much of his early ministry to construction of the administrative order defined in `Abdu'l-Bahá's Will and Testament, then used it as an instrument for carrying out the vast spread of the Bahá'í Faith called for by `Abdu'l- Bahá in the Tablets of the Divine Plan. Throughout his ministry Shoghi Effendi worked tirelessly to translate the writings of Bahá'u'lláh into English and to pen hundreds of epistles clarifying basic Bahá'í teachings. His devotion, self-sacrifice, and suffering are an inspiration to Bahá'ís of all generations. The beginning of a new plan is an ideal time to study him, for he set the pattern of our plans. The Wilmette Institute's course will use a unique collection of published biographies, articles, and commentaries, assembling them together in a systematic framework for the learner who wishes to understand the Guardian in depth. The course will be taught by Peter Terry, Zaid Lundberg, and Duane Troxel. It starts November 15--a week from now--and last three months. It is taught completely via the Worldwide Web, with all readings and the discussion Forum available in a few clicks. The cost is $150 for an individual, but ample scholarships and discounts are available; just email us at [EMAIL PROTECTED] Group registrations are $300. Anyone can start a group, pay for it, and recoup the fee from those who join the group. Everyone in the group is assigned the same mentor, so he or she can call the group at their convenience. Plan to take the course in order to give presentations about the Guardian to study classes, deepenings, children's classes, firesides, and other gatherings. Your mentor will be ready to advise and assist you. Please share this news with others in the next few days. For more information, go to http://wilmetteinstitute.us.bahai.org or call us toll-free at 877-wilmette (945-6388). The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Baha'i Studies program at the AAR
Renaissance Hotel, Washington, DC Meeting Room 18 Monday, 11/20/2006 4:00 PM - 6:30 PM Dr. Robert H. Stockman, DePaul University, presiding 4:00 Dr. Susan Maneck, Jackson State University, Jackson, Miss. The Bahá'í Covenant as Responsiveness 4:40 Erfan Sabet, Lancaster University, Lancaster, U.K. Can Religious Identity Falsify Labeling Theory?: The Case of Iranian Bahá'í Youth Aged 21-30 5:20 Mikhail Sergeev, University of the Arts, Philadelphia Separation of Religion and State in Bahá'í Teachings 6:00 Discussion For additional information about these sessions or about the Bahá'í Studies Colloquy, contact Robert Stockman at [EMAIL PROTECTED] or 847-337-7750 (cell). The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Wilmette Institute
The cost of the three-month course *Baha'i History, 1863-2000,* which was to start November 1, has just been cut in half to encourage more participation. Heretofore, individual tuition will be $75 and local study groups will cost $150. Don't miss this great opportunity to study the unfoldment of our beloved Faith! But to get the discount, don't go to our registration page and click on register; the software can't offer discounts. Email us at [EMAIL PROTECTED] instead and we'll tell you how to register. The course is the first in a series of new courses by the Wilmette Institute to explore Baha'i history. Focusing on *God Passes By* (which Covers 1844-1944) and *Century of Light* (which covers 1900-2000 and looks at events both inside and outside the Baha'i community), it will provide a golden opportunity to read both of these works slowly, carefully, and comparatively. A small library of other documents on Baha'i history Is also available as pdfs to provide background and context as desired by the reader. History is not a dry collection of dates, but the dynamic evolution of a community as it grows and faces internal and external challenges. It teaches us where we have come from and helps us understand the tasks we face today, during the new Five Year Plan. Join us in this exploration of the progress of the Baha'i community. THE WILMETTE INSTITUTE: E-LEARNING AND ON-SITE LEARNING CENTER http://www.wilmetteinstitute.us.bahai.org 877-wilmette (877-945-6388) The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: Wilmette Institute
Dear Friends: The Wilmette Institute is pleased to announce its 2007 course schedule. Please spread this information around among your friends, take it to Feast, etc., Also, please let people know about our upcoming courses in November and December. We have a lot to offer over the next year to personal transformation, development of human resources, fostering community life, and helping the Faith build toward entry by troops. We hope over the next year to make important contributions. THE MINISTRY OF SHOGHI EFFENDI TOPIC: Shoghi Effendi Rabbani (1897-1957), the eldest grandson of `Abdu'l-Bahá, is a crucial figure for understanding the Bahá'í Faith. Guardian of the Bahá'í Faith from 1921 until his passing, Shoghi Effendi devoted much of his early ministry to construction of the administrative order defined in `Abdu'l-Bahá's Will and Testament, then used it as an instrument for carrying out the vast spread of the Bahá'í Faith called for by `Abdu'l-Bahá in the Tablets of the Divine Plan. Throughout his ministry Shoghi Effendi worked tirelessly to translate the writings of Bahá'u'lláh into English and to pen hundreds of epistles clarifying basic Bahá'í teachings. His devotion, self- sacrifice, and suffering are an inspiration to Bahá'ís of all generations. DATES: November 15, 2006 to February 15, 2007 TEXTS: A special package of readings assembled by the Wilmette Institute. FACULTY: Peter Terry, Zaid Lundberg, and Duane Troxel. THE QUR'AN TOPIC: The Qur'án is the divine revelation on which the religion of Islam is based. The Bahá'í sacred writings are filled with quotations from it and allusions to it, and many words used by the Báb, Bahá'u'lláh, and `Abdu'l-Bahá have qur'ánic resonances. Its study by Bahá'ís is emphasized by Shoghi Effendi: They must. . .approach reverently and with a mind purged from preconceived ideas the study of the Qur'án which, apart from the sacred scriptures of the Bábí and Bahá'í Revelations, constitutes the only Book which can be regarded as an absolutely authenticated Repository of the Word of God (ADJ 49). The Guardian would certainly advise, and even urge the friends to make a thorough study of the Qur'án, as the knowledge of this sacred Scripture is absolutely indispensable for every believer who wishes to adequately understand and intelligently read, the writings of Bahá'u'lláh Directives of the Guardian, p. 63). The course will examine the entire text of the Qur'án and Is lamic and Bahá'í commentaries on its meaning. Technical terms will be explained in order to make the text accessible to those who do not know Arabic. DATES: December 1, 2006, to February 28, 2007 TEXTS: The Qur'án and various commentaries and supplemental readings assigned by the Institute. FACULTY: Peter Terry, Omid Ghamaeghami, Cynthia Shawamreh, and others. BAHA'I THEOLOGY: CONCEPTS OF GOD, REVELATION, MANIFESTATION, CREATION, HUMANITY, AFTERLIFE, AND COVENANT Bahá'í Theology is neither highly abstract, nor excessively difficult, nor a narrow and specialized study. Rather, it consists of many of the most basic and central teachings of the Bahá'í Faith: its concept of the nature of God; how that God guides humanity through revelation vouchsafed unto Manifestations; the nature and purpose of the Manifestations and their successive teachings (progressive revelation and the Covenant); the nature and purpose of human beings and their physical existence; the nature of physical creation; and the nature of the next world. In short, Bahá'í Theology answers the basic questions human beings have always asked about the nature and purpose of life. The course should be a great help in answering seekers' questions about the Faith and providing a context in which other Bahá'í teachings fit together. FACULTY: Peter Terry, Ted Brownstein, and Zaid Lundberg. TEXTS: A compilation of Bahá'í scriptural texts, articles and chapters by Bahá'ís, and some material on theology in general. COST OF ALL COURSES: $150 (individual); $120 (senior citizens [65 and older], students, pioneers); $300 (group); financial aid is available. 2007 E-LEARNING COURSES (TAUGHT BY WEB AND INTERNET ONLY) 1/15/2007 - 4/15/2007: Living the Spiritual Life 2/15/2007 - 5/15/2007: Buddhism for Deepening and Dialogue 3/15/2007 - 6/15/2007: Tabernacle of Unity 4/15/2007 - 7/15/2007: Bahá'í Community and Administration 5/1/2007 - 7/31/2007: Building the Fortress: Marriage and Family Life 5/15/2007 - 8/15/2007: World Order of Baha'u'llah: Selected Letters 6/15/2007 - 9/15/2007: The Bahá'í Faith: A Comprehensive Introduction 7/15/2007 - 10/15/2007: Judaism for Deepening and Dialogue 8/15/2007 - 11/15/2007: One Common Faith 9/15/2007 - 12/15/2007: Bahá'u'lláh's Early Mystical Works: The Hidden Words, The Seven Valleys, Four Valleys, Gems of Mysteries 10/1/2007 - 12/31/2007: The Secret of Divine Civilization 11/1/2007 - 1/31/2008: The Exemplar: The Life and
Re: change of sex?
Huh? - Original Message - From: Hasan Elias [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Wednesday, November 1, 2006 4:33 am Subject: change of sex? To: Baha'i Studies bahai-st@list.jccc.edu In bahá'í view a homosexual is a sick heterosexual or perturbed heterosexual. So change of sex doesn't exist. http://hasaneliasperu.blogspot.com/ The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. __ Correo Yahoo! Espacio para todos tus mensajes, antivirus y antispam ¡gratis! Regístrate ya - http://correo.espanol.yahoo.com/ __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-255536- [EMAIL PROTECTED]: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: You never really know: transsexual or gay?
Are you saying you know a case where the Baha'i Administration did not invalidate a marriage where one partner changed physical gender? Are there cases where a person who changed genders wished to remain married as before? Or are we just talking hypothetically? I would think if a person truly identified themselves with a gender other than the one they had at birth then they would not want to maintain a sexual relationship with someone of the same sex to which they had just switched. warmest, Susan The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: Daniel, the Prophet
The century the Book of Daniel was composed in is disputed.nbsp; Generally, believers believe it was written in the sixth century BC, whereas non-believers believe it was written in the second century BC. Dear David, There are plenty of believers who also hold it was written in the second century BC. That's what I teach in my classes. To believe in the earlier date one would have to regard Daniel as an apocalyptic work which did not follow the normal convention of prophesying a lot of stuff after the fact and being used as a tool to give faith to those in crisi! The book of Revelation is likewise an apocalyptic book and one used by Abdu'l-Baha. I don't see why this is a problem. The Tablet of the Holy Mariner might likewise be considered apocalyptic. warmest, Susan The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: What's the truth of Astrology and Numerology?
A long time ago it had occured to me that in the standard Christmas story, the claim that the magi from the east knew that the messiah was going to be born (if taken literally) strongly suggests that some form of astrology has some validity. Dear Gilberto, The Magi story may well have its roots in Zoroastrian prophecy. I don't know that there were any astrological predictions associated with the coming of the Sayoshants [there is supposed to be a series of three, each coming in thousand year intervals] but it was believed they would all be born of virgins miraculously impregnated with the seed of Zoroaster. There was no expectation that the Jewish Messiah would be born of a virgin. The reference to a virgin in Isaiah is a mistranslation from the Greek. The original merely said, 'young woman.' warmest, Susan The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: You never really know: transsexual or gay?
All I know is this, should such a case arrive, it woulod not be treated as setting a precedent for how the House would deal with it. There is no such thing as a precedent in Baha`i 'due process'. Each case would be unique and treated as such. Dear Scott, There may not be such a thing as precedence but there is such a thing as legislation which I would think any decision on such a matter would require. Also, if there were no thing as precedence in any sense whatsoever, why do we use letters written on behalf of the House of Justice, particularly ones written to individuals? warmest, Susan The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: virgin birth Re: What's the truth of Astrology and Numerology?
Sure, but both the NT and the Quran are actually fairly clear on the point. I've not sure why you'd mention the above ambiguity. Dear Gilberto, They are clear that Jesus was born of a virgin, not that Jews expected this. warmest, Susan The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: Re: You never really know: transsexual or gay?
I have known Baha'is who married members of the opposite sex in order to pass within the Baha'i community as heterosexual. I assume that they felt this was an acceptable approach to their struggles with sexual preference. Dear Bill, Oh, I realize that. It is rather common infact, inside and outside the Baha'i community. People will bow to social pressures in all sorts of ways. But what we are talking about here, is almost the exact opposite of doing that. warmest, Susan The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: You never really know: transsexual or gay?
So what will the Faith accept as defining gender? What medical experts say? Chromosomes? Body appearance? What the person believes his or her gender to be? If a female changes to a male and later enrolls in the Faith, can he serve on the House? If a male is born with ambiguous genitalia and raised female, can he serve on the House if he chooses to later identify as male? These are all issues which have been raised before the House of Justice but they are not yet ready to make a ruling in this regards. warmest, Susan The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: what is a vision? was Re: Resurrection of Christ
So what happened when someone says they saw a vision? Is it a God-induced hallucination only visible to one person? Is it an appearance visible to many people? What about these resurrection experiences? Physical? Dear Gilberto, I'm suggesting we don't really know. When Muhammad saw Jabreel was anyone else up there on the mountain to witness it? warmest, Susan The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: Resurrection of Christ
Dear Brent, I don't think that what the Baha'i Writings say about the Resurrection necessitate visionary experiences of the Resurrected Christ, but I don't think they preclude them either. My conclusions in this regard are based primarily on the historical evidence. warmest, Susan The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: Resurrection of Christ
This risen Christ issue was very big to him, I suppose in contrast to images of Catholic crucufixes. Dear Karen, That's kind of a one-upsman thing Protestants sometimes use against the Catholics. They claim because they (Protestants) wear empty crucifixes it represents the resurrection as opposed to the Catholic crucifixes which depict Jesus being crucified. But the original reason they didn't put Jesus on the cross is because they objected to the use of figurative icons because they considered then idolatorous. I could not help but think of Mary, who as I recall, was the catalyst to calming the diciples afterward, in that she recognized He indeed lived on in the faith imbued in them. It has always been my thought that the visions of Him were not physical events but spiritual insights. If we are talking about a vision, I'm not sure what physical versus spiritual means. Visions are not physical to begin with. But there is a long tradition both in the gnostic texts and in the orthodox canon of Jesus appearing after the crucifixtion as a being of light. In fact, He apparently was appearing to early Christians so frequently that Luke felt he had to put a lid on it by saying that Jesus ascended after thirty days (and therefore these appearances should stop.) warmest, Susan The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: Resurrection of Christ
Dear David, Although Abdu'l-Baha does not say so explicitly, my reading of the early Christian sources, combined with Abdu'l-Baha's interpretation lead me to think that there were 'ressurrection' appearances of Jesus after the crucifixtion. They just weren't physical. warmest, Susan The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: Is it okay? . . . .
Congratulations, Scott. Tell us about your book. - Original Message - From: Scott Saylors [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Tuesday, October 10, 2006 7:30 am Subject: Is it okay? . . . . To: Baha'i Studies bahai-st@list.jccc.edu . . . to announce the publication of a novel I have written, with some references and quotes from the Baha`i faith tucked away within the story, on this list? The book comes out in February and is available for pre-order at the moment. Regards, Scott As human beings, we are endowed with freedom of choice, and we cannot shuffle off our responsibility upon the shoulders of God or nature. We must shoulder it ourselves. It is our responsibility. Arnold J. Toynbee The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-251322- [EMAIL PROTECTED]: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: Is it okay? . . . .
So this is an ebook? - Original Message - From: Scott Saylors [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Tuesday, October 10, 2006 3:12 pm Subject: Re: Is it okay? . . . . To: Baha'i Studies bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Okay, I'll bite the bullet. If it turns out it's not okay, just delete the message, Susan. The title is Sword of the Dajjal, you can find the pre-sale announcement at: http://www.capripublishing.net/ click on books, click on Sci-Fi and scroll down. It is science fiction set 600 years in the future. The assumption is that even if technology allowed all the folks with a grudge to leave for parts unknown, you never out run a problem you haven't solved. From Wikpedia: ' al-Dajjal (Arabic: #1575;#1604;#1583;#1617;#1580;#1617;#1575;#1604;, al- dajj#257;l) (The Deceiver/impostor/quack[1]) is an evil figure in Islamic eschatology, who will appear before Yawm al-Qiyamah. He is similar to the Antichrist in Christianity Dajjal in itself is a commonly use Arabic word, Dajjals could refer to False prophets. Al-Dajjal on the other hand translates to The Impostor, refering to a specific end-of time deceiver. It is worthy to note that the term Al-Masih Ad-Dajjal (Arabic for The False Messiah) is a literal translation of the Syriac term Meshiha Deghala, which had been in the common vocabulary of the Middle East for more than 400 years prior to the Quran via the Peshitta (which uses that term instead of the Greek antichristos).[1] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well, even if it's _not_ okay, the least you could do now that you've tantalized some of us is to tell us the name of the book! ;-) --Sekhmet In a message dated 10/10/06 8:30:51 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: . . . to announce the publication of a novel I have written, with somereferences and quotes from the Baha`i faith tucked away within the story, on this list? The book comes out in February and is available for pre-order at the moment. Regards, Scott The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED]: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu As human beings, we are endowed with freedom of choice, and we cannot shuffle off our responsibility upon the shoulders of God or nature. We must shoulder it ourselves. It is our responsibility. Arnold J. Toynbee __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-251439- [EMAIL PROTECTED]: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public -
Re: voices recording
By the way, I think there is a recording of the Master saying a prayer, Dear Husayn, That's correct. There are a couple of them in fact. There is also a silent movie. do you know if the Guardian's voice was recorded or if there is a film of him? Not that I know of. He was adverse to even having his picture taken. warmest, Susan The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: When does one cease to be a youth?
Okay, I was wrong in saying that the Writings says anything like that.nbsp; I would have been referring to something Shoghi Effendi said about how youth are the most important for the Cause.nbsp; Should I provide a quote? Dear David, In that case I'm guessing he had in mind people under 30. warmest, Susan The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: When does one cease to be a youth?
Dear David, The term translated as Youth in reference to the Bab and more especially Baha'u'llah is usually ghulam which literally is a slave boy. It is an allusion to the story of Joseph. warmest, Susan The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: When does one cease to be a youth?
I mentioned how the Writings speak of youth and their responsbilities and that the Writings are obviously referring to a certain age group Dear David, Personally, I think Mr. Javeheri gave you the right answer. But why don't you post those passages from the Writings which you have in mind so we can tell for sure? warmest, Susan The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: Wrong quote attribution...
Could someone share what the Bahai version is for the quote? Dear Gilberto, I found various similiar passages. Here is where it is found in Baha'u'llah's Writings: Ye are all the leaves of one tree and the drops of one ocean. (Baha'u'llah, Tablets of Baha'u'llah, p. 27) And we have these passages from Abdu'l-Baha. . The glory of God has proclaimed a cause that until now none had heard. He addresses himself to the whole of humanity, saying: O people of the world, ye are all the branches of one tree, the leaves of one branch, the drops of one sea. (Abdu'l-Baha, Divine Philosophy, p. 61) Let this gathering be a foreshadowing of what will, in very truth, take place in this world, when every child of God realizes that they are leaves of one tree, flowers in one garden, drops in one ocean, and sons and daughters of one Father, whose name is love! (Abdu'l-Baha, Paris Talks, p. 30) O Thou Provider! The dearest wish of this servant of Thy Threshold is to behold the friends of east and west in close embrace; to see all the members of human society gathered with love in a single great assemblage, even as individual drops of water collected in one mighty sea; to behold them all as birds in one garden of roses, as pearls of one ocean, as leaves of one tree, as rays of one sun. (Abdu'l-Baha, Selections from the Writings of Abdu'l-Baha, p. 75) Wherefore, O ye beloved of the Lord, bestir yourselves, do all in your power to be as one, to live in peace, each with the others: for ye are all the drops from but one ocean, the foliage of one tree, the pearls from a single shell, the flowers and sweet herbs from the same one garden. (Abdu'l-Baha, Selections from the Writings of Abdu'l-Baha, p. 280) warmest, Susan The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: RE: Wrong quote attribution...
BT, Wikipedia's entry: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lacordaire puts his death date as 1861. Is that too late for this quote? My wife sent this to me today. Does anyone know the correct way to correct such a thing? I suppose Mr. Lacordaire could have come up with it on his own but how likely is that? Dear Dick, I'm finding it credited to him all over the internet but nowhere does anyone give the source where it is quoted from. warmest, Susan The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: Needed: Video/DVD on Iranian History?
Dear Dick, If you don't get a response here would you like me to forward you question to the Tarikh (history) list? warmest, Susan - Original Message - From: Dick Detweiler [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Tuesday, August 29, 2006 2:42 am Subject: Needed: Video/DVD on Iranian History? To: Baha'i Studies bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Hello all, Please forgive the slightly OT nature of this posting. I will be teaching a high school level Baha'i class this year in our local community. The theme is Baha'u'llah and before I started a detailed look at His Life and Writings, I want to establish the contextthat He acted in. So I am considering a session on Persian culture/history from ancient times to the Qajars and perhaps another one to discuss the Qajars, their relationship with the Western world and what was going on in America and other places between the 1830 -1870's. Since I am by no means an expert on these subjects, I was hoping to find videos/DVD's that cover Persian history. Googling and looking at Amazon have not turned up any such material in English. Does anyone know of any multimedia material on these subjects in Englishthat are commercially available? You can respond to me directly at [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thank you, Dick The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-242446- [EMAIL PROTECTED]: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: bahá'í view on sports
Dear Hasan, I'm hoping young Shoghi Effendi's essay might silence those who insist there is something wrong with Baha'is playing competitive games. warmest, Susan - Original Message - From: Hasan Elias [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Wednesday, August 9, 2006 1:06 am Subject: bahá'í view on sports To: Baha'i Studies bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Hi friends, When I knew that Shoghi Effendi wrote something in favor of sports, I was glad. Although, he wrote this at 17 years old, I think it reflects coherently the bahá'í view on sports and its importance on the integral human develop (body, mind, spirit). So far, I see the bahá'í position encourage the sports of athletic nature, so I think in a future bahá'í society the Olympic Games will not die. :-) http://bahai-library.com/?file=shoghieffendi_functions_sports_life The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. __ Correo Yahoo! Espacio para todos tus mensajes, antivirus y antispam ¡gratis! Regístrate ya - http://correo.espanol.yahoo.com/ __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-239218- [EMAIL PROTECTED]: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
