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This goes paragraph by paragraph and disscusses each one.
Good for a paragraph by paragraph disscusion. Which one should we start with?
test
On Dec 20, 2007 4:13 PM, maidenhairleaf [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
this Thing of His ?
yeah, me too
--
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Subject: Re: Criticism of One Common Faith
Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 20:13:22 +
Lord
support for being right on i guess that
makes you right on as wellso the three of you have managed to find a
point of unityhow enlightening !
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Subject: Re: Criticism of One Common Faith
Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 22:49:38 -0500
Who
If any differences arise amongst you, behold Me standing before your face, and
overlook the faults of one another for My name’s sake and as a token of your
love for My manifest and resplendent Cause. We love to see you at all times
consorting in amity and concord within the paradise of My
Why are you so angry?
- Original Message -
From: maidenhairleaf
To: Baha'i Studies
Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2007 9:03 AM
Subject: RE: Criticism of One Common Faith
who am i
nobody in particular..altho i have changed the tl to my regular posting
handle...which
: Criticism of One Common Faith
Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 11:46:29 -0500
Why are you so angry?
- Original Message -
From:
maidenhairleaf
To: Baha'i Studies
Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2007 9:03
AM
Subject: RE: Criticism of One Common
Faith
who am i
You sound like another of those disgruntled ex-Baha'is.
- Original Message -
From: maidenhairleaf
To: Baha'i Studies
Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2007 11:33 AM
Subject: RE: Criticism of One Common Faith
if you see anger in my posts, maybe you should re-examine how you view
Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2007 7:10 AM
Subject: RE: Criticism of One Common Faith
oh, that the reason that independant investigation has been thrown aside
infavour of blind imitation ?
what does Dominus vobiscum mean ? i used to know a bit of latin once apon a
time... long, long ago
do i really ? ex-baha'i ? nope...sorry to disapoint youi am not an X.
that would have been a real easy one for you to deal with, wouldn't it ?
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Subject: Re: Criticism of One Common Faith
Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 12:22:14 -0500
You
btwif you need susan or mke to lead you around and do your thinking for
you, you are in sinking in more mire than i can ever imagine existed.
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Subject: Re: Criticism of One Common Faith
Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 12:22:14 -0500
You
11:51 AM
Subject: Re: Criticism of One Common Faith
Please feel free to independently investigate anything at any time. For
example: you are hereby given explicit and irrevocable permission to
independently investigate the meaning of Dominus vobiscum.
Dominus vobiscum.
richard
In the words of my paternal parent: Don't mention it.
Dominus vobiscum.
richard.
- Original Message -
From: maidenhairleaf
thank you !!
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Subject: Re: Criticism of One Common Faith
Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 08:51:38 -0800
Please
Message -
From: Dean Betts [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Baha'i Studies bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2007 9:48 AM
Subject: Re: Criticism of One Common Faith
Richard,
Just curious, why not say it in English?
That way, those of us who don't read latin don't have to look it up
Lord, how i love La Sua Cosa..
lessee... somebody introduces the idea that kindly deeds, radiant whatevers
and smiling pet the bunnies are more Masterly than g.b. shaw, who insisted that
a specific form of mysogyny be named after him by conflating a french
pun..chauvinism...and is told they
this Thing of His ?
yeah, me too
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Subject: Re: Criticism of One Common Faith
Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 20:13:22 +
Lord, how i love La Sua Cosa..
lessee... somebody introduces the idea that kindly deeds, radiant whatevers
Dear all,
Susan Maneck wrote:
It seems to me that you guys are complaining that you can't read the
text. I agree, you can't read it. But I don't think that is the fault
of the authors.
warmest, Susan
I agree. I believe that it was George Bernard Shaw who observed that
when a mind and a
-0500
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Subject: Re: Criticism of One Common Faith
Dear all,
Susan Maneck wrote:
It seems to me that you guys are complaining that you can't read the
text. I agree, you can't read it. But I don't think that is the fault
of the authors
At 11:05 PM + 12/19/07, firestorm wrote:
is the House authorising us to be reminded that members of the
Faith are as subject to sectarianism as an emerging false god to
the extent they have been past effected by the rituals of the 3
false gods named by the infallible Guardian as
i happen to regard both your statement as well as susan's as a generic
insults...regardless of the book in question. if that was directed to me
there would be more than a smattering of verbage fired back in the general
direction from wence it orriginated.
To be perfectly honest I found most
Lighten up gang!
T'is the season to be funny! Laugh at ourselves instead of at others.
I am reminded of a number of times where my Learning disability has caused
me a few headaches. Such as the time I kept telling people that in the New
World Order we would all wear uniforms.
All wear uniforms!
People chose not to take my word for it and went to the specific page where
it certainly stated that in the New World Order there would be one common
language and a uniform
Because of my eye problem I had skipped the following sentence that
continued on with, system of weights and
Another example would be the wars of religion in Europe, which
reemerged (with less virulence) in the Irish troubles: these have in
fact responded to patient diplomacy, but that might not have been
evident when OCF was being written.
I don't think so. The OCF document seems to be referring to
Dear all,
I said a couple of days ago I would give examples of the criticisms I had of
One Common Faith. This post concerns my main beef about incomprehensible
sentences and hard to understand arguments. So, I am saying that
1) it fails to communicate its meaning effectively because
importance to the international
scene that is true in
2007 was just as obvious and true in 2000.
I agree with all your points.
Ron
On Dec 17, 2007 8:57 AM, Berni Lenihan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Dear all,
I said a couple of days ago I would give examples of the criticisms I had
of One Common
To make my points (or not) I need to ask you to read the following from OCF.
It is the first new paragraph on page 4.
As the twentieth century approached its close, therefore, nothing seemed
less likely than a sudden resurgence of religion as a subject of consuming
global importance. Yet
In particular, I find the first two sentences to be just plain wrong, as in
, contrary to the facts. To clim that religion went form beign ignored to
being on the front burner in 7 short years between i200 and 2007 is absurd.
Dear Ron,
That is not what the passage says. It says nothing about
My responses are within quotation marks.
Richard.
- Original Message -
From: firestorm [EMAIL PROTECTED]
richard,
:I see him as a critic of the frivolity of both the economies and the
societies.
posssibly. he's complaining, for sure. but, imho since he lacks what ian might
call some
Susan,
You have been able to get to the end of the paragraph. Well done.
I gave the criticism quite a bit of thought (no laughing please) and came to
the conclusion that because of the subjectivity involved the best thing to do
was to list a paragraph completely so that a person could decide
At 5:57 AM -0800 12/17/07, Berni Lenihan wrote:
To make my points (or not) I need to ask you to read the following
from OCF. It is the first new paragraph on page 4.
To figure out what the House of Justice is saying, you first need to
determine the topic sentence of the paragraph. In this
My comments are in quotation marks.
Dominus vobiscum.
Richard.
- Original Message -
From: Berni Lenihan
As the twentieth century approached its close, therefore, nothing seemed
less likely than a sudden resurgence of religion as a subject of consuming
global importance. Yet that is
1) it fails to communicate its meaning effectively because it is badly
written
No.
and/or
2) it contains assertions that are not supported by any reasonable evidence
I'm not sure what you mean by that. If you mean the document doesn't
always provide the evidence which supports its
How about the Crusades as an example of Ancient sectarian conflicts,
apparently unresponsive to the patient arts of diplomacy, (that) have
reemerged with a virulence as great as anything known
before.?
A few comments -
Ancient sectarian conflicts - For the most part, Fundamentalist Christians
On 12/18/07, Dean Betts [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
How about the Crusades as an example of Ancient sectarian conflicts,
apparently unresponsive to the patient arts of diplomacy, (that) have
reemerged with a virulence as great as anything known
before.?
Dear Dean,
Well, if the Pope were to call
richard,
:I see him as a critic of the frivolity of both the economies and the
societies.
posssibly. he's complaining, for sure. but, imho since he lacks what ian might
call some archimedan fulcrum or something, and i know from my bizness life that
he lacks insite into the relationship of the
- Original Message -
From: firestorm [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Baha'i Studies bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Sent: Friday, December 14, 2007 11:34 AM
Subject: Re: Contributors to One Common Faith
richard,
:-)
:Veblen insisted that if one was not aware of the particular references to
which he
Richard,
I hadn't heard of Veblens work but did a quick wikipedia on it and of course am
only slightly the wiser. I have heard of the others and as a general point I
think you are onto something there.
Actually, my first reaction when reading OCF was that it was like a fax of a
fax from
Actually, my first reaction when reading OCF was that it was like a fax of a
fax from one of the older fax machines. The UHJ tend to copy the style of
Shoghi Effendi but don't quite hit the sweet spot.
Dear Berni,
I'd rather we *not* talk about our likes or dislikes as to the writing
style
I found it a mixture of incomprehensible sentences, arrogance and
exclusiveness.
Please give examples.
Not really worthy of a Baha'i publication. I started to tentatively agree
with the generality of some of the ideas but typically ended up feeling their
arguments were hard to
.
- Original Message -
From: firestorm [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Baha'i Studies bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2007 1:04 PM
Subject: Re: Contributors to One Common Faith
richard,
:-)
as one examines with the eye of clarity those trends and shaping forces that
apply
Berni- if you do write the secretariat please share with us what you receive
back.
On 12/12/07, Berni Lenihan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
*firestorm [EMAIL PROTECTED]* wrote:
it has been my poor understanding that in such essays we are seeing the
collective thinking of the 9 guys in haifa, as
I would appreciate one or two specific references in OCF which substantiate
your objections. I am simply curious; simply because the commentary follows
the same pattern and presents the same expectations regarding the reader's
literacy as do Secrets of Divine Civilization; the World Order Letters
That's a pretty wholesale condemnation, Bernie.
Why don't you point to the specific parts you have objections to and
we can discuss them?
On 12/12/07, Berni Lenihan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
firestorm [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
it has been my poor understanding that in such essays we are
it has been my poor understanding that in such essays we are seeing the
collective thinking of the 9 guys in haifa, as differentiated from the Guidance
of the UHJ.
i seem to recall beiong at a dicsuccusion of century of light where someone
noted subtle style differences throught the pages,
firestorm [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: it has been my poor understanding that in
such essays we are seeing the collective thinking of the 9 guys in haifa, as
differentiated from the Guidance of the UHJ.
Thats an interesting insight. Although the foreword in OCF is signed by the
UHJ and they say
Hi all,
I've been trying to find out who (i.e. person/people) wrote One Common Faith,
commissioned and supervised by the UHJ in 2005. I haven't had any luck so far
through google. Would anyone here know?
-
Be a better friend, newshound, and know
Why do you want to know this?
On Dec 10, 2007 4:12 AM, Berni Lenihan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hi all,
I've been trying to find out who (i.e. person/people) wrote One Common
Faith, commissioned and supervised by the UHJ in 2005. I haven't had any
luck so far through google. Would anyone
Don wrote:
How about linking the return to
overview to the place that refers
to that particular paragraph in the
text instead of all the way back
to the beginning.
Thank you for your interest, and for your suggestion.
That will have to wait until I learn more about JavaScript, or until I
At 12:55 PM + 8/19/07, Jim Habegger wrote:
I'm working on an expandable overview of One Common Faith. I've
posted it at http://www.geocities.com/geotalk/ocf/ .
How about linking the return to overview to the place that refers
to that particular paragraph in the text instead of all
of One Common Faith
* How to respond to this call
* How to promote responses from other Baha'is
* Harrowing consequequences of unchecked sectarian hatreds
At Ridvn 2002, we addressed an open letter to the worlds religious leaders.
Our action arose out of awareness that the disease of sectarian
Hi everyone,
I have not been able to puruse the document by the House. Can anyone
tell me where to obtain it.
Rich
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Also it is there in the World Centre site
http://reference.bahai.org/en/t/bic/OCF/
You can peruse it here dear friend and peruse is the operative word. One
cannot read it easily without perusing it, pondering upon it, immersing
oneself in its ocean.
[humbly khazeh]
No forwarding allowed
Dear Friends,
I apologize for the delay. This is the 6th and final installment of "One Common Faith," from the Baha'i World Center.
~Allah'uAbha~
barmak
============
One Common Faith , cont'd
54The power through which th
Thank you thank you Barmak for all this effort.
I find these paragraphs fascinating.
Still we have to work hard and pray hard
For this reason, the distinction between theological faith and belief in the
other religions, must be firmly held. If faith is the acceptance in grace of
revealed truth,
Essentially, Ratzinger is saying here that the faith of non-Christians can never have the same sweetness, purity, spirituality, truth, and validity and . as faith in Christ can, which Baha'u'llah would of course reject out of hand, as Dear Julio Savi posits in his paper.
Love,
BarmakKhazeh
..What I meant also to add is that he sees "other religions' sacredbooks" and "beliefs" as essentially human constructs --deficient, lacking, and incomplete, containing only a "ray" of truth, unless and until Jesus is accepted as the one and only throughout history for all eternity. This again,
Dear Friends,
The Universal House of Justice did commend this commentary to the
thoughtful study of the friends
The Forward, it seems to me, is rather startling and may require some
comment. (O)ur action arose out of awareness that the disease of sectarian
hatreds, if not decisively checked,
The problem I have is that Cardinal Ratzinger's (Pope Benedict XVI) approach
essentializes religion. Unless one is speaking of a specific religion (such
as a branch of a religious category like Christianity or Buddhism) or of the
Baha'i concept of the religion of God (the progressively revealed
But Gilberto,
As Baha'is, we recognize the Firm Handle ("urvat'ul vuthgha") of the Word of God, "the unerring balance." This is not something that can be "solved" outside of that, is it? If that were the case, then why would Baha'u'llah establish unerring proofs? Or am I looking at this from a
Gilberto, you wrote:
So for example, I realize and appreciate (really I do) that
from your perspective the issue of who is or isn't Bahai is
rather clear. But there are also other people claiming to be
Bahai who don't necessarily
meet your criteria. So implicitly or explicitly, you are
Dear Khazeh and friends,
I am interested in studying this text. I just skimmed through it and loved it. This is finals weeks so I cannot participate.
Khazeh Fananapazir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
The One Common Faith has been placed on the web by Dr Fosterhttp://bahaistudies.net/bwc
When was this document written, and what does it mean that it was 'comissioned' by the House?Khazeh Fananapazir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
The One Common Faith has been placed on the web by Dr Fosterhttp://bahaistudies.net/bwc/onecommonfaith.htmlOne Common FaithCommissioned by the Universal House
Hi,
I don't think my messages are getting through, so let me try again.
This is a very interesting document, and I am interest in reading through this.This was written for Naw-Ruz 2005, right?
Khazeh Fananapazir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
The One Common Faith has been placed on the web by Dr
In terms of these three soteriologies, I put together this page of links about
a year ago:
http://links.religionsnet.com/soteriologies.html
Here is a page where I offer my own thoughts on the subject:
http://salvation.bahaifaith.info/
This is a posting I made on this subject some time ago:
Mistake:
I wrote:
A Baha'i can, IMO, be heteropraxic but not heterodox.
That should have been:
A Baha'i can, IMO, be heterodox but not heteropraxic.
Via moderna, Mark A. Foster Portal: http://markfoster.net
... since [a] word is said to be common, it can be called a
universal - William of
I do not consider `Abdu'l-Baha's seasonal analogy to be evidence He believed
that the force of a Revelation could be exhausted. When a person goes from
third to fourth grade, the energy of third grade is not depleted. However,
just as the child would normally move on (while still benefiting
Richard,
At 03:52 PM 5/6/2005, you wrote:
Excellent explanation with perfectly matching supportive quotation in this
section.
I had forgotten that I revised (slightly) this message and placed it on the web:
http://bahaistudies.net/soteriology.html
Via moderna, Mark A. Foster Portal:
On 5/6/05, Mark A. Foster [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Just as there are various Christianities, Islams, Judaisms, Hinduisms, etc.,
there are, and should be, a multitude of Baha'i faiths (polydoxy). What
unites us as Baha'is, and gives us our shared identity, is not our orthodoxy,
our
Hi, Gilberto,
At 05:25 PM 5/6/2005, you wrote:
Is that really how the Bahai faith fits into the above framework? It seems
more like a particular understanding of Bahai orthodoxy? The analogy which
comes to mind is that what you said sounds like a Christian saying Of
course, there are many
Ok. fair enough.
-Gilberto
On 5/6/05, Mark A. Foster [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hi, Gilberto,
At 05:25 PM 5/6/2005, you wrote:
Is that really how the Bahai faith fits into the above framework? It
seems more like a particular understanding of Bahai orthodoxy? The analogy
which comes to
Gilberto: Just in general, it seems very hard to get around
the issue. Anytime you take a religious group and you want to
define it, by definition that means setting limits as to who
is in, and who is out. And unless you simply accept everyone
who self-identifies, it seems like you would
The One Common Faith has been placed on the web by Dr Foster
http://bahaistudies.net/bwc/onecommonfaith.html
One Common Faith
Commissioned by the Universal House of Justice
One Common Faith
Bahá'í World Centre
Bahá'í World Centre, Haifa
Copyright
Dear Friends,
I will now post ONE COMMON FAITH, and Dominus Iesus, two to three pages at a time (daily? ever other day? weekly?), in that order, if that is ok, for our study.
I will start with thePreface by the Universal House of Justice; and I will follow it by the Introduction to Dominus
spiritual life evolves.***
This is
an area we have to work on. I think Barmak this study and the One Common Faith
Document is a start
Thank you
and God willing others will show interest
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Barmak Kusha
Sent: 05
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