It is said that the Jihad is only to defense, and historians (no-
believers) can argue that Muhammad was only a big merchant and He
want the hegemony of the trade in the region, so He returned to
Mecca to fight and get this aim.
Dear Hasan,
I don't know any historians who have made this
I think Shi`ah consider the `ismah (infallibility) of `ali, Fatimih,
Imam Hasan, Imam Husayn, etc., etc. on par with the infallibility
of the
Prophet Muhammad. I guess the Shaykhi school adopts a very extremist
view of the exalted station of imams. But I think Baha'u'llah does
not
accept
As to the question you raise about the perfection of the
Manifestations, I think you can find a direct answer in Some
Answered Questions. In that book Abdu'l Baha explains that the
apparent rebukes to the Prophets are indirect rebukes to the
Prophet's followers rather than to the Prophet
I can't get the link to work.
- Original Message -
From: Dean Betts [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Friday, July 21, 2006 8:36 pm
Subject: Lincoln's Statement
To: Baha'i Studies bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
The Baha'is do not have a temple in Haifa. We have shrines. Why
would Mr. Lincoln refer
But if it has been so decidedly rejected, why would Bahais in India
present Bahaullah as an Avatar?
Because it is the closest concept Hinduism has to Manifestation. But
we do usually explain we don't literally mean incarnation.
warmest, Susan
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i disagree with mark about this, but i understand his view.
in a discussion in which frequently we see terms like most
Moslems think and some poets say there is a strong appearance
that the words are constructs of a culture.
I think it would be more precise to say, words have no meaning,
The verse recommended to me that the meanings of words are
actually given by
God; and that man must recognise those meanings if he is to
understand the
relationship between his existence and the Revelations of God.
Otherwise, I
believe, he will live in a confusion of words.
Dear
A Rabbi is calling for Muslims and Christians to revise the Koran
and the
New Testament, excising the passages that preach ill-will towards
others.Dr Jonathan Romain, the Rabbi of Maidenhead Synagogue,
says that Jewish
scholars should also delete some verses from the Hebrew bible.**
snip
Dear Hasan,
Here's a URL that explains it:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Hudaybiyyah
warmest, Susan
- Original Message -
From: Hasan Elias [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Thursday, July 6, 2006 2:42 pm
Subject: Re: Muhammad and His return to Mecca
To: Baha'i Studies
Gilberto, these are points to bear in mind from the book
Making the Crooked Straight (a book made in response to attacks
from an ex-bahai Francesco Ficichia):
Hasan, do you have an electronic version of this book?
The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto
Dear Albert,
If you follow Al-Jazeera you will find there is plenty of self-
criticism in the Arabic world.
warmest, Susan
The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail)
is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be
References?
Google for the English language pages of al-Jazeera. My son and I were
reading those just yesterday.
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is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be
confidential and
words have no meaning, people have meanings.
I would appreciate it very much if someone could explain what
this means.
Dear Tim,
I can tell you what I meant by that. ;-}
Words in and of themselves have no instinsic meaningm they are just
sounds. But those that use them intend
Dear Friends,
If you want to see an even-handed approach to the ramifications of
Islam in geo-political terms I would recommend you look at the book
*Good Muslim, Bad Muslim: America, the Cold War, and the Roots of
Terror* by Mahmood Mamdani.
But I do not want to see this list become a
I see this the same way. Words do have meaning, but only
because people agree that they do.
Dear Tim,
And that's what Mark Foster meant by a 'social contract.' However, in
my experience each individual tends to use terminology in ways that
are often specific to them. So when analyzing a
Dear Albert,
You can't get access to that unless you are subscribed.
But let's keep on topic with the Baha'i Faith, please.
warmest, Susan
The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail)
is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is
But I'm not about to give up my
extracts, which have 30 to 90 per cent alcohol by
volume, because Shoghi Effendi said not to eat
flaming rum puddings or sip a toast. I think we
need to use some common sense.
My understanding is that rum puddings have quite a lot of alcohol left
in them.
Any chance you could send me a copy to my gmail address? (Not this
one, it will crash.)
I have a hard copy of the book, but I'd like to be able to quote it
when appropriate.
- Original Message -
From: Hasan Elias [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Wednesday, August 2, 2006 10:49 am
Subject: Re:
(this happened before I became a Baha'i, so
I had no
excuse not to eat it). ;-)
Uh huh. Like you were looking for one. ;-}
Didn't 'Abdu'l-Baha (or maybe Shoghi Effendi) say something once
about not
making an issue of alcohol content in food when we're somebody's
guest, in order
to
What about Jesus, Moses or the other Manifestations?
Jesus and Moses did not. You have to keep in mind that in this time
period water was not save to drink and people didn't know about
boiling it. But wine was often mixed with water which disinfected it.
Also, in those days it was not
I infer that gambling as source of bahá?ís funds is forbidden
(also gambling as an occupation is inadvisable), but I don?t think
it is completely forbidden for recreation purposes. As far as
individuals are concerned, we have carefully studied the Writings
of 'Abdu'l-Bahá and Shoghi
My recollection is that alcohol is only gradually prohibited in the
Qur'an itself. At first the Qur'an merely says there is good and bad
in wine, but the bad exceeds the good. Then it says don't go to prayer
drunk, something hard to do if you imbibe at all and pray five times a
day. Afterwards
Hi Susan, I have played Bingo, poker, etc. in family meetings
(there are azar games)... In the other hand (azar games as
recreation to earn a bit money ;-) Are you saying that we cannot
play lottery anytime?
Dear Hasan,
No, I didn't say that. Lotteries are for charitable purposes. Even
Could someone come up with an actual reason as to why 'Abdu'l-Baha's
Writings don't make the grade we should expect to find in those of a
Prophet?
Dear David,
Yes, Book in this context infers not simply Writings but a Book of
Laws such as the Kitab-i Aqdas. Abdu'l-Baha did not reveal
Much time I have asked why we (some of us, even institutions) used
to say good-bye in letters/e-mails with these words with loving
bahá'í greetings, I think we should not try to differentiate
loves or to change the current good-bye forms.
Dear Hasan,
I have always taken the 'Baha'i' as a
i personally think it came about as a differentaiting praxis, so
that the firends wouldn't ask well, if we're not some kind of
Moslem, why are we saying Alla'u'Akhbar? and they were given an
alternative.
We usually use Allah'u'Abha as a greeting. That's not how Muslims use
Allah'u'akbar.
This is interesting; could you resume how this kind of platonic
love is?
Dear Hasan,
I'm just saying it is a way of saying 'love' with no erotic overtones.
I don't see any necessity to use this good-bye form, it seems
we differentiate a superior love here; this could dislike
Dear Hasan,
I'm hoping young Shoghi Effendi's essay might silence those who insist
there is something wrong with Baha'is playing competitive games.
warmest, Susan
- Original Message -
From: Hasan Elias [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Wednesday, August 9, 2006 1:06 am
Subject: bahá'í view on
Dear Dick,
If you don't get a response here would you like me to forward you
question to the Tarikh (history) list?
warmest, Susan
- Original Message -
From: Dick Detweiler [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Tuesday, August 29, 2006 2:42 am
Subject: Needed: Video/DVD on Iranian History?
To:
BT, Wikipedia's entry: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lacordaire
puts his
death date as 1861. Is that too late for this quote?
My wife sent this to me today. Does anyone know the correct way
to correct
such a thing? I suppose Mr. Lacordaire could have come up with
it on his
own but
Could someone share what the Bahai version is for the quote?
Dear Gilberto,
I found various similiar passages. Here is where it is found in
Baha'u'llah's Writings:
Ye are all the leaves of one tree and the drops of one ocean.
(Baha'u'llah, Tablets of Baha'u'llah, p. 27)
And we
I mentioned how the Writings speak of youth and their
responsbilities and that the Writings are obviously referring to a
certain age group
Dear David,
Personally, I think Mr. Javeheri gave you the right answer. But why
don't you post those passages from the Writings which you have in mind
Dear David,
The term translated as Youth in reference to the Bab and more
especially Baha'u'llah is usually ghulam which literally is a slave
boy. It is an allusion to the story of Joseph.
warmest, Susan
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is
Okay, I was wrong in saying that the Writings says anything like
that.nbsp; I would have been referring to something Shoghi Effendi
said about how youth are the most important for the Cause.nbsp;
Should I provide a quote?
Dear David,
In that case I'm guessing he had in mind people under 30.
By the way, I think there is a recording of the Master saying a
prayer,
Dear Husayn,
That's correct. There are a couple of them in fact. There is also a
silent movie.
do you know if the Guardian's voice was recorded or if
there is a film of him?
Not that I know of. He was adverse to
Congratulations, Scott. Tell us about your book.
- Original Message -
From: Scott Saylors [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Tuesday, October 10, 2006 7:30 am
Subject: Is it okay? . . . .
To: Baha'i Studies bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
. . . to announce the publication of a novel I have written, with
So this is an ebook?
- Original Message -
From: Scott Saylors [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Tuesday, October 10, 2006 3:12 pm
Subject: Re: Is it okay? . . . .
To: Baha'i Studies bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Okay, I'll bite the bullet. If it turns out it's not okay, just
delete the message,
Dear David,
Although Abdu'l-Baha does not say so explicitly, my reading of the
early Christian sources, combined with Abdu'l-Baha's interpretation
lead me to think that there were 'ressurrection' appearances of Jesus
after the crucifixtion. They just weren't physical.
warmest, Susan
This risen Christ issue was
very big to him, I suppose in contrast to images of
Catholic crucufixes.
Dear Karen,
That's kind of a one-upsman thing Protestants sometimes use against
the Catholics. They claim because they (Protestants) wear empty
crucifixes it represents the resurrection as
So what happened when someone says they saw a vision? Is it a
God-induced hallucination only visible to one person? Is it an
appearance visible to many people? What about these resurrection
experiences? Physical?
Dear Gilberto,
I'm suggesting we don't really know. When Muhammad saw Jabreel
Dear Brent,
I don't think that what the Baha'i Writings say about the Resurrection
necessitate visionary experiences of the Resurrected Christ, but I
don't think they preclude them either. My conclusions in this regard
are based primarily on the historical evidence.
warmest, Susan
So what will the Faith accept as defining gender? What medical
experts say? Chromosomes? Body appearance? What the person
believes
his or her gender to be? If a female changes to a male and later
enrolls in the Faith, can he serve on the House? If a male is
born with
ambiguous
Are you saying you know a case where the Baha'i Administration did
not
invalidate a marriage where one partner changed physical gender?
Are there cases where a person who changed genders wished to remain
married as before? Or are we just talking hypothetically?
I would think if a person
The century the Book of Daniel was composed in is disputed.nbsp;
Generally, believers believe it was written in the sixth century BC,
whereas non-believers believe it was written in the second century BC.
Dear David,
There are plenty of believers who also hold it was written in the
second
A long time ago it had occured to me that in the standard Christmas
story, the claim that the magi from the east knew that the messiah
was
going to be born (if taken literally) strongly suggests that some
form
of astrology has some validity.
Dear Gilberto,
The Magi story may well have its
All I know is this, should such a case arrive, it woulod not be
treated as setting a precedent for how the House would deal with
it. There is no such thing as a precedent in Baha`i 'due process'.
Each case would be unique and treated as such.
Dear Scott,
There may not be such a thing as
Sure, but both the NT and the Quran are actually fairly clear on the
point. I've not sure why you'd mention the above ambiguity.
Dear Gilberto,
They are clear that Jesus was born of a virgin, not that Jews expected
this.
warmest, Susan
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I have known
Baha'is who married members of the opposite sex in order to pass
within the Baha'i community as heterosexual. I assume that they felt
this was an acceptable approach to their struggles with sexual
preference.
Dear Bill,
Oh, I realize that. It is rather common infact, inside and
Huh?
- Original Message -
From: Hasan Elias [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Wednesday, November 1, 2006 4:33 am
Subject: change of sex?
To: Baha'i Studies bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
In bahá'í view a homosexual is a sick heterosexual or perturbed
heterosexual. So change of sex doesn't exist.
The cost of the three-month course *Baha'i History, 1863-2000,* which
was to
start November 1, has just been cut in half to encourage more
participation.
Heretofore, individual tuition will be $75 and local study groups will
cost $150.
Don't miss this great opportunity to study the unfoldment of
Dear Friends:
The Wilmette Institute is pleased to announce its 2007 course
schedule. Please spread this information around among your friends,
take it to Feast, etc., Also, please let people know about our
upcoming courses in November and December. We have a lot to offer over
the next year
If a Baha'i is married to a non-Baha'i the non-Baha'i can get a
divorce prior to the conclusion ofnbsp;a year of patience.nbsp; They
can do this because Baha'i law is subordinate to civil law.nbsp;
Dear David,
It is possible for a Baha'i to get a civil divorce prior to the end of
the year of
The Wilmette Institute is pleased to offer its course on the Ministry
of Shoghi Effendi (1897-1957), again. Guardian of the Bahá'í Faith
from 1921 until his passing, Shoghi Effendi devoted much of his early
ministry to construction of the administrative order defined in
`Abdu'l-Bahá's Will and
Renaissance Hotel, Washington, DC
Meeting Room 18
Monday, 11/20/2006
4:00 PM - 6:30 PM
Dr. Robert H. Stockman, DePaul University, presiding
4:00 Dr. Susan Maneck, Jackson State University,
Jackson, Miss.
The Bahá'í Covenant as
Dear friends,
As the last announcement indicated, I'm presenting a paper at the
American Academy of Religion this weekend. I've not written the
conclusion yet, but I'd like to share with you what I have and get
your feedback.
warmest, Susan
The Covenant as Responsiveness
When Baha’is
I have been thinking about this question for a few weeks.
To what extent is modern global Islamic culture based on
Arab culture?
Dear Tim,
I think it is probably true that Islam has carried more of
the 'baggage' of the culture in which it was born than any of the
other World Religions.
The equivalence between responsiveness shown toward the Lord of
the Kingdom
and responsiveness toward each of His servants was enunciated by
Jesus, in
this way:
Dear Vaughn,
You are quite right. I remembered that passage only a few minutes ago
when I was responding to someone on
Becasue the Baha'i Faith arose in Persia, our daughters have names
in the
Farsi form.
But does that signify that we regard Persian culture as somehow more
authentically Baha'i?
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Often I have wondered if the mystery of the Holy *Grail *is
related to the
archangel *Gabriel*, the messenger of the death, of the big news
(in the
Bible) and the developer of the Qur'án.
Dear Badi,
What mystery of the Holy Grail?
warmest, Susan
The information contained in this
Dear Badi,
I know what the Holy Grail is, I just don't see that there is any
mystery behind it. People just made up a lot of fanciful tales about
it. I don't see this has any connection to the Archangel Gabriel at
all. I think you are being misled by the fact that the two words sound
In those stories, might the Grail be the holy Sign that fuses both
ancient Celtic tribal traditions with the arrival of Christianity?
Dear Susan B.,
That certainly seems to be the function of those sotries.
warmest, Susan
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Dear friends,
Gilberto has been forwarding private correspondence to this list
without permission. Please do not respond and encourage this kind of
behavior.
Gilberto, you are no longer welcome here.
Susan
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They were basically rejected posts intended for soc.religion.bahai
which I felt you were mischaracterizing and then rejecting.
That doesn't give you the right to bring it here.
As I said, you are no longer welcome on this forum.
The information contained in this e-mail and any
As a Christian Baha'i, I can assure you that christians people
make a clear difference between the Faith in the 7 days of
creation of the world (as exposed in the Genese of the Bible)and
the scientific knowledge about creation of the Earth, life, and
humanity! Perhaps it seems idiot, but
Anyway, I see some risks of censorship when I read some baha'i
publications
that have been reviewed, corrected, validated, re-reviewed...
Dear Loic,
What 're-reviewed' are you talking about?
warmest, Susan
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You are right, I have to make the precision.
I was talking about Christians people you can meet in Europe :
Roman
Catholics, Protestants, Anglicans, Orthodox catholics...
Dear Loic,
Correct me if I'm wrong but I'm under the impression that French
Catholics aren't all that religious
What I meant is that I sometimes feel worried when I see so many
warnings at the beginning or at the end of some Baha'i writings.
examples given: this text has been translated by the X committee,
reviewed by the Y committee, approved by Z, and might be later
corrected by ZZ...
Dear Loic,
A simple word of the Faith : the Bayan, which
could be
easily translated in french by l'Annonce or l'Explication, but
people
are so afraid to translate that they keep the Bayan in their
writings.
Dear Loic,
When it appears in the Writings we do translate it, normally
as 'utterance'
Dear Scott,
It would be a mistake to interpret the House's April 7 letter as an
attack on the notion of academic freedom. What they are criticizing is
the attempt to misuse the term in a Baha'i religious context. Academic
freedom is the freedom of teachers, students, and academic
I have heard about these evangelical religions, they look to be
more
efficient than us in terms of number of conversions! ;-)
Dear Loic,
Yes, there seems to be resurgence of conservatism and literalism in
religion all over the world. Our retention, bad as it is, is a bit
better however.
Personaly I have never felt this repugnance toward my ex-wife. I
always respect and appreciate her. but when I realized I was in
love with someone else (and not just for a temporary pleasure
time) I have prefered to talk with her about this.
Dear Loic,
I do not think that falling in love
(and someone
else can
do the research!), I have long understood that non-alcoholic
wine and
beer AREN'T. They are simply sufficiently reduced in alcohol
content as
to avoid being labeled as regular beer or wine. One should be able
to
read labels (at least, in the U.S.) to see if it
But as David mentioned earlier - there is non-alcoholic wine
available and
it can taste just as good as the alcoholic version with meals.
Never tell a Frenchman that non-alcoholic wine is just as good.;-}
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is
Non-alcoholic wine?!
never heard about this! (may be an american creation!)
it cannot be wine but just grape-fruits juice! (Frenchman point of
view);-)
Not exactly. There is sparkling grape juice as well which I quite
often buy. But non-alcholic wine is where the grapes were allowed to
31st Annual Conference of the Association for Bahá’í Studies–North
America
Mississauga, Ontario - August 16-19, 2007
Scholarship and Community-Building
Theme Statement
Community is the organic entity in which human spiritual and material
potential can emerge. It is where people interact and
... far, far, far away from the ken of men and angels;
That starts a quote describing the Covenant that instantly struck a
chord with me when I read it in The Power of the Covenant series
pamphlets published in 1976. Shoghi Effendi quoted about as much
of it
as I have above and
but would like proper provenance if available.
By provenance do you mean the isnad?
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Dear friends,
James Mock's daughter was kind enough to share with me the House of
Justice letter of condolence. I also have a letter from the NSA which
I'll be posting presently.
warmest, Susan
TO: The National Spiritual Assembly of
the Bahá’ís of the United States
DATE: 7 January 2007
The Guardian quotes a number of times from Promulgation in his
letters and
in God Passes By. He does not regard it as unreliable.
Dear Brent,
The Guardian sometimes quotes pilgrim's notes. That doesn't make them
reliable as a body. At most, it might give some status to the specific
Dear David,
Your question reminds me of the old Mutazalite/Asharite [Free will vs.
Predestination] debate. There is a story associated with al-Asharite's
breaking away from his Mutazalite teacher. You can read it hear:
al-Ashari posed to his teacher the cases of three brothers whose
fates
The Prophets of Mahábád, together with Zoroaster, were twenty-
eight in
number.
Dear Richard,
My understanding is that this statement is not from Baha'u'llah but
was a quotation from Manakji's letter. Manakji wrongly believed the
Dasatir was an authentic text whereas it was probably
Why didn't God send
any tests?
Well, you could also ask for them. But God has been so bountiful to me
on this account that I've never felt any compulsion to pray for tests.
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Are you saying you think the answer to my question Does God
intervene to
make bad things happen so as to test people? is yes? Asking
surely
indicates wanting God to intervene to make something happen?
Dear David,
I'm not one to speculate on what God will or will not do. I think of
Many people say prayers for peace. For there to peace requires
people to
turn away from evil. I was wondering how God could answer prayers
for peace
without violating free will. If an answer to a prayer means God
making more
peace then wouldn't this require Him intervening to make
I don't recall seeing this before. I think I know what the
benefits of this
world are, but what are teh benefits of the next world spoken about?
Dear David,
What the Bab is talking about is seeking heaven or paradise for its
own sake instead of seeking God Himself. . The Muslim
How is one to determine whether they have enough tests in their
life? And
if we grow from tests aren't we supposed to want more?
Yes, we are *supposed* to want more. But we don't do the determiantion
of when we've had enough. Tests don't stop until we die in any case.
warmest, Susan
While the Magi or Fire Worshippers are mentioned in the Qu'ran,
I don't think they're counted as People of the Book. Of course
some Muslim scholars have a lose interpretation of this, and I
have heard of some Moghuls even justifying People of the Book
status for Hindus and Buddhists.
Tests don't stop until we die in any case.
Would you please tell me where in the writings it says that
there will
be no more tests in the worlds after this one?
Dear Tim,
I'm presuming that is the case because of what Abdu'l-Baha indicated
about progress in the afterlife
It says in the Writings that God doesn't burden a soul beyond its
capacity.
I'm just wondering how one could determine what a person's
capacity is, so
as to know what being burdened beyond one's capacity would look
like.
According to the Writings those who have committed suicide
I always thought the proverb in question applied any and all tests.
Dear Dean,
The context in which I've read the proverb did not say anything about
tests whatsoever. It seems to have more to do with our not feeling
over-burdened by obligations. Here are the contexts in which I found
the
Well, I am someone who likes clear answers, I suppose we all agree
with the fact that a bahai can't say the truth everytime. Do we
agree?
Dear Hasan,
If like could be that black and white, then we would tell the truth
all the time.;-}
warmest, Susan
The information contained in
Susan, please could you explain if the use of hikmat allows to
lie in some instances? (I'm not talking about confessions)
Dear Hasan,
I know that Baha'is *did* use it as an excuse to lie on occasion.
Whether that was right, I'm not prepared to say. The only instance I
know of where
Thanks for answer, if this armed man says that he will kill
everyone who is bahá'í? We accept this as martyrdom? Could this be
martyrdom or foolishness?
Dear Hasan,
If such a person were to ask me where the Baha'is were, I would not
tell him and I might even give some false information
31st Annual Conference of the Association for Bahá'í Studies-North
America
Mississauga, Ontario - August 16-19, 2007
Scholarship and Community-Building
Theme Statement
Community is the organic entity in which human spiritual and material
potential can emerge. It is where people interact and
To all members of the WINEWS, ACADEMICS, and HIGHERED:
The Wilmette Institute is pleased to offer a three-month web-based
course on an important new translation of tablets by Baha'u'llah, *The
Tabernacle of Unity,* starting March 15.
The main tablet was revealed for Manikchi Limji Hataria, a
Dear Donald,
I'll have to ask Rob, but in my experience anyone who needs the
discount gets it.
warmest, Susan
- Original Message -
From: Donald Strong [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Tuesday, March 6, 2007 3:27 am
Subject: Tabernacle of Unity
To: Baha'i Studies bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
The Baha'i Writings say one must believe in and follow the laws of
the
Manifestation to be saved:
Dear David,
Baha'u'llah doesn't use the word 'saved' that passage you cited.
I don't think it is our place to make judgements as to why others
believe or don't believe. We should concern
Baha'u'llah doesn't use the word 'saved' that passage you cited.
Okay, but doesn't it seem obvious that we can infer that meaning?
Dear David,
It is a misleading appropriation of Christian vocabulary. Baha'is are
not
obsessed with individual salvation the way Christians are and we
shouldn't
Who can say what this mean: And cast him into the bottomless pit,
and shut him up, and set a seal upon him
And who can say who is that beast, is it the Umayyad?
Dear Hasan,
That's what Abdu'l-Baha indicates:
The beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall war against
them, and
Dear Hasan,
You mean genies or jinn, not genius. :-}
Besides the quote from the letter written on behalf of the Guardian
which you cited, I can add a little more which I think I got from
Khazeh at one point or another. According to the Qur'an the Jinn are
made from fire, unlike humanity
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