Dear Hasan,
I found the statement you were referring to on the other list. It was
made by an ex-Baha'i who does not accept the authority of letters
written on the Guardian's behalf. But since that list has a no-
forwarding rule we should probably not be discussing those threads
here.
The first accusation is one easily made for any religion but difficult
to substantiate. The second would apply to Islam and in pre-modern
times to Christianity and Judaism as well.
- Original Message -
From: M Chase [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Friday, May 11, 2007 0:05 am
Subject:
Ok, I want to define the significance of the term left movements
used by the Master in Selections of the Writings. I need to know
the differences between this term and the current politic parties
and governments of the left side.
Dear Hasan,
Unfortunately this is from a talk and I don't
Ah, so it is from the Writings, not a talk. I'll check on Tarjuman and
find out what phrase was translated as Movement of the Left.
In any case, all the things Abdu'l-Baha predicted occurred during the
interwar period before WWII.
- Original Message -
From: Barbara Clements [EMAIL
?:
Movements, newly-born and world-wide in their range, will exert
their utmost effort for the advancement of their designs. The
Movement of the Left will acquire great importance. Its influence
will spread.
- 'Abdu'l-Bahá wrote in Selections of the Writings -
Dear Hasan,
I'm not
I'm not sure I find that a compelling argument. After all, if it
were true, then the Guardian would have translated nothing at all.
Dear Scott,
I'm not sure I understand your logic here.
I think it more likely that he wrote the prayers in Persian for
the Persian friends, but never
It's the same reason he discouraged people from displaying
photos of himself.
Dear Scott,
I'm not sure it is the same. The Persian believers have entire prayer
books full of his prayers. We do have a couple of prayers written by
the Guardian. The one he wrote after the passing of Bahiyyih
LOL. I have dogs and cats too. It seems they dream. But the Master
says something like without seeing you see, but the dogs and
cats with eyes closed also see in dreams no?
Probably. At least my dog seems to be chasing a rabbit. It would seem
that even with animals the imagination is more
Thank you for bringing this to my attention. I did not know about
that directive or I wouldn't have asked. Does anyone have a source
where Shoghi Effendi says this?
Dear Larry,
I don't think there is any directive. But given the fact that so many
of Baha'u'llah and Abdu'l-Baha's prayers
Dear David,
I don't think of the Universal House of Justice as an individual
person having a will which 'wants' something beyond what they
explicitly ask for.
warmest, Susan
- Original Message -
From: David Friedman [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Monday, April 23, 2007 1:29 am
Subject:
Dear Brent,
According to what a House member told me, there is a statement from
the Guardian to the effect that the House of Justice will be needed to
consolidate the Lesser Peace. That is why they were so determined to
finish the Arc before the end of the century. There needs to be a
Dear Friends on the winews, academics, and highered listservers:
The Wilmette Institute's course on the development of the Baha'i
community in the context of the Five Year Plan has been undergoing a
lot of revising in the last week or so. The Universal House of
Justice's recent message about
Dear Hasan,
Theoretically all jobs in Baha'i offices are volunteer services, not
occupations. People are paid for them if they cannot otherwise serve.
In the US we have three paid secretaries and one paid treasurer on the
NSA, but there are many NSA who don't pay their officers at all.
My
guess of
what Shoghi Effendi meant when he spoke of varied elements in the
community
would relate to the skills different people can offer. Certainly
not to
making sure we have a diverse mix of ethnic groups on the
Assembly.
Dear David,
Why is that certain?
I can't see
I agree with the feeling that education for all should mean
free education.
Dear Loic,
The thing is that the Aqdas doesn't talk about free education for all,
it talks about free education for those who can't afford it. But
ordinarily, according to the Aqdas the father is responsible for
Doesn't the word only imply that only what is mentioned here can
be
considered? The House makes various appeals to Shoghi Effendi in
the
relevant paragraph, but a quotation is noticeably absent when they
say:
From among the pool of those whom the elector believes to be
qualified to
This means that
free and obligatory education would cause people freedom to choose
their academic plan,
Dear Hasan,
I don't get the impression from the Writings that education will
necessarily be free. In fact the Aqdas requires a father educate his
children and only if he cannot afford
Dear David,
Look at the last sentence from the letter written on the Guardian's
behalf and its emphasis on 'varied.' It seems to me this is very much
in accord with the House's letter:
The
Assembly should be representative of the choicest and most varied
and
capable elements in
Well, how obligatory education is obligatory if it is not free?
Dear Hasan,
It is obligatory because the Aqdas requires a father to educate his
son. If the father fails to do so the House of Justice has the right
to take the money from the father. If he cannot afford it, then the
House of
accelerated courses ignore completely the praxis.
Dear Hasan,
And that's why when A clusters are created by using accelerated
courses without implementing the practices growth does not occur. It's
self-defeating. If Ruhi is anything at all, it *is* the practices.
warmest, Susan
The
In order to advance to an A cluster a certain number of people
must complete
a few of the courses.
Dear David,
Not a 'few' of the courses. In order to become an A cluster there
must be 30-50 people who have completed the *entire sequence* of
courses.
Since I don't really learn
What kind of cult would the Faith be if you were allowed to do
that;-?!
Seriously, taking the courses by yourself would destroy their whole
purpose which is not to teach us certain things but to get us as a
community *doing* certain things. So the books are useless without the
practices.
There are many examples like these. Maybe a facilitator, out of
courtesy, would not say
That answer is wrong, but an answer can still be wrong or
right, even if no one calls it that.
The notion that there are no right or wrong answers may hold
for some open ended questions, but for
In a recent cluster meeting it had a list of things like home
visits and
devotional meetings that people could aim to take part in. It
seems to me
that home visits can be limited by ones age and gender. I'm 29
and most
people in my community are middle aged. If I rang one of them
Yes, the dictionary isn't of much help when it comes to understanding
what the Guardian meant by not proselytizing.
- Original Message -
From: M Chase [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Monday, March 26, 2007 3:13 pm
Subject: Re: proselytize/teach
To: Baha'i Studies bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
What I
Who can say what this mean: And cast him into the bottomless pit,
and shut him up, and set a seal upon him
And who can say who is that beast, is it the Umayyad?
Dear Hasan,
That's what Abdu'l-Baha indicates:
The beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall war against
them, and
Dear Hasan,
You mean genies or jinn, not genius. :-}
Besides the quote from the letter written on behalf of the Guardian
which you cited, I can add a little more which I think I got from
Khazeh at one point or another. According to the Qur'an the Jinn are
made from fire, unlike humanity
Dear Hasan,
If it is the same documentary on the anti-Christ which appeared on the
history channel it is an excellent documentary.
warmest, Susan
Susan thanks for answer, I remember I saw a documentary in
Discovey channel, christian theologians interpret 666 this way.
But is clear that
Dear Hasan,
I think both clay and fire can be understood metaphorically.
warmest, Susan
- Original Message -
From: Hasan Elias [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Sunday, March 18, 2007 10:19 pm
Subject: genies :)
To: Baha'i Studies bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Thanks for answer Susan, if there are
Baha'u'llah doesn't use the word 'saved' that passage you cited.
Okay, but doesn't it seem obvious that we can infer that meaning?
Dear David,
It is a misleading appropriation of Christian vocabulary. Baha'is are
not
obsessed with individual salvation the way Christians are and we
shouldn't
The Baha'i Writings say one must believe in and follow the laws of
the
Manifestation to be saved:
Dear David,
Baha'u'llah doesn't use the word 'saved' that passage you cited.
I don't think it is our place to make judgements as to why others
believe or don't believe. We should concern
Dear Donald,
I'll have to ask Rob, but in my experience anyone who needs the
discount gets it.
warmest, Susan
- Original Message -
From: Donald Strong [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Tuesday, March 6, 2007 3:27 am
Subject: Tabernacle of Unity
To: Baha'i Studies bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
31st Annual Conference of the Association for Bahá'í Studies-North
America
Mississauga, Ontario - August 16-19, 2007
Scholarship and Community-Building
Theme Statement
Community is the organic entity in which human spiritual and material
potential can emerge. It is where people interact and
To all members of the WINEWS, ACADEMICS, and HIGHERED:
The Wilmette Institute is pleased to offer a three-month web-based
course on an important new translation of tablets by Baha'u'llah, *The
Tabernacle of Unity,* starting March 15.
The main tablet was revealed for Manikchi Limji Hataria, a
Thanks for answer, if this armed man says that he will kill
everyone who is bahá'í? We accept this as martyrdom? Could this be
martyrdom or foolishness?
Dear Hasan,
If such a person were to ask me where the Baha'is were, I would not
tell him and I might even give some false information
Susan, please could you explain if the use of hikmat allows to
lie in some instances? (I'm not talking about confessions)
Dear Hasan,
I know that Baha'is *did* use it as an excuse to lie on occasion.
Whether that was right, I'm not prepared to say. The only instance I
know of where
It says in the Writings that God doesn't burden a soul beyond its
capacity.
I'm just wondering how one could determine what a person's
capacity is, so
as to know what being burdened beyond one's capacity would look
like.
According to the Writings those who have committed suicide
I always thought the proverb in question applied any and all tests.
Dear Dean,
The context in which I've read the proverb did not say anything about
tests whatsoever. It seems to have more to do with our not feeling
over-burdened by obligations. Here are the contexts in which I found
the
Well, I am someone who likes clear answers, I suppose we all agree
with the fact that a bahai can't say the truth everytime. Do we
agree?
Dear Hasan,
If like could be that black and white, then we would tell the truth
all the time.;-}
warmest, Susan
The information contained in
While the Magi or Fire Worshippers are mentioned in the Qu'ran,
I don't think they're counted as People of the Book. Of course
some Muslim scholars have a lose interpretation of this, and I
have heard of some Moghuls even justifying People of the Book
status for Hindus and Buddhists.
Tests don't stop until we die in any case.
Would you please tell me where in the writings it says that
there will
be no more tests in the worlds after this one?
Dear Tim,
I'm presuming that is the case because of what Abdu'l-Baha indicated
about progress in the afterlife
How is one to determine whether they have enough tests in their
life? And
if we grow from tests aren't we supposed to want more?
Yes, we are *supposed* to want more. But we don't do the determiantion
of when we've had enough. Tests don't stop until we die in any case.
warmest, Susan
Many people say prayers for peace. For there to peace requires
people to
turn away from evil. I was wondering how God could answer prayers
for peace
without violating free will. If an answer to a prayer means God
making more
peace then wouldn't this require Him intervening to make
I don't recall seeing this before. I think I know what the
benefits of this
world are, but what are teh benefits of the next world spoken about?
Dear David,
What the Bab is talking about is seeking heaven or paradise for its
own sake instead of seeking God Himself. . The Muslim
Are you saying you think the answer to my question Does God
intervene to
make bad things happen so as to test people? is yes? Asking
surely
indicates wanting God to intervene to make something happen?
Dear David,
I'm not one to speculate on what God will or will not do. I think of
Why didn't God send
any tests?
Well, you could also ask for them. But God has been so bountiful to me
on this account that I've never felt any compulsion to pray for tests.
The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail)
is sent by the Johnson County
The Prophets of Mahábád, together with Zoroaster, were twenty-
eight in
number.
Dear Richard,
My understanding is that this statement is not from Baha'u'llah but
was a quotation from Manakji's letter. Manakji wrongly believed the
Dasatir was an authentic text whereas it was probably
The Guardian quotes a number of times from Promulgation in his
letters and
in God Passes By. He does not regard it as unreliable.
Dear Brent,
The Guardian sometimes quotes pilgrim's notes. That doesn't make them
reliable as a body. At most, it might give some status to the specific
Dear David,
Your question reminds me of the old Mutazalite/Asharite [Free will vs.
Predestination] debate. There is a story associated with al-Asharite's
breaking away from his Mutazalite teacher. You can read it hear:
al-Ashari posed to his teacher the cases of three brothers whose
fates
Dear friends,
James Mock's daughter was kind enough to share with me the House of
Justice letter of condolence. I also have a letter from the NSA which
I'll be posting presently.
warmest, Susan
TO: The National Spiritual Assembly of
the Bahá’ís of the United States
DATE: 7 January 2007
but would like proper provenance if available.
By provenance do you mean the isnad?
The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail)
is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be
confidential and for the use of only the
... far, far, far away from the ken of men and angels;
That starts a quote describing the Covenant that instantly struck a
chord with me when I read it in The Power of the Covenant series
pamphlets published in 1976. Shoghi Effendi quoted about as much
of it
as I have above and
(and someone
else can
do the research!), I have long understood that non-alcoholic
wine and
beer AREN'T. They are simply sufficiently reduced in alcohol
content as
to avoid being labeled as regular beer or wine. One should be able
to
read labels (at least, in the U.S.) to see if it
But as David mentioned earlier - there is non-alcoholic wine
available and
it can taste just as good as the alcoholic version with meals.
Never tell a Frenchman that non-alcoholic wine is just as good.;-}
The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail)
is
Non-alcoholic wine?!
never heard about this! (may be an american creation!)
it cannot be wine but just grape-fruits juice! (Frenchman point of
view);-)
Not exactly. There is sparkling grape juice as well which I quite
often buy. But non-alcholic wine is where the grapes were allowed to
31st Annual Conference of the Association for Bahá’í Studies–North
America
Mississauga, Ontario - August 16-19, 2007
Scholarship and Community-Building
Theme Statement
Community is the organic entity in which human spiritual and material
potential can emerge. It is where people interact and
They were basically rejected posts intended for soc.religion.bahai
which I felt you were mischaracterizing and then rejecting.
That doesn't give you the right to bring it here.
As I said, you are no longer welcome on this forum.
The information contained in this e-mail and any
As a Christian Baha'i, I can assure you that christians people
make a clear difference between the Faith in the 7 days of
creation of the world (as exposed in the Genese of the Bible)and
the scientific knowledge about creation of the Earth, life, and
humanity! Perhaps it seems idiot, but
Anyway, I see some risks of censorship when I read some baha'i
publications
that have been reviewed, corrected, validated, re-reviewed...
Dear Loic,
What 're-reviewed' are you talking about?
warmest, Susan
The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto
You are right, I have to make the precision.
I was talking about Christians people you can meet in Europe :
Roman
Catholics, Protestants, Anglicans, Orthodox catholics...
Dear Loic,
Correct me if I'm wrong but I'm under the impression that French
Catholics aren't all that religious
What I meant is that I sometimes feel worried when I see so many
warnings at the beginning or at the end of some Baha'i writings.
examples given: this text has been translated by the X committee,
reviewed by the Y committee, approved by Z, and might be later
corrected by ZZ...
Dear Loic,
A simple word of the Faith : the Bayan, which
could be
easily translated in french by l'Annonce or l'Explication, but
people
are so afraid to translate that they keep the Bayan in their
writings.
Dear Loic,
When it appears in the Writings we do translate it, normally
as 'utterance'
Dear Scott,
It would be a mistake to interpret the House's April 7 letter as an
attack on the notion of academic freedom. What they are criticizing is
the attempt to misuse the term in a Baha'i religious context. Academic
freedom is the freedom of teachers, students, and academic
I have heard about these evangelical religions, they look to be
more
efficient than us in terms of number of conversions! ;-)
Dear Loic,
Yes, there seems to be resurgence of conservatism and literalism in
religion all over the world. Our retention, bad as it is, is a bit
better however.
Personaly I have never felt this repugnance toward my ex-wife. I
always respect and appreciate her. but when I realized I was in
love with someone else (and not just for a temporary pleasure
time) I have prefered to talk with her about this.
Dear Loic,
I do not think that falling in love
Dear friends,
Gilberto has been forwarding private correspondence to this list
without permission. Please do not respond and encourage this kind of
behavior.
Gilberto, you are no longer welcome here.
Susan
The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail)
In those stories, might the Grail be the holy Sign that fuses both
ancient Celtic tribal traditions with the arrival of Christianity?
Dear Susan B.,
That certainly seems to be the function of those sotries.
warmest, Susan
The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments
Often I have wondered if the mystery of the Holy *Grail *is
related to the
archangel *Gabriel*, the messenger of the death, of the big news
(in the
Bible) and the developer of the Qur'án.
Dear Badi,
What mystery of the Holy Grail?
warmest, Susan
The information contained in this
Dear Badi,
I know what the Holy Grail is, I just don't see that there is any
mystery behind it. People just made up a lot of fanciful tales about
it. I don't see this has any connection to the Archangel Gabriel at
all. I think you are being misled by the fact that the two words sound
The equivalence between responsiveness shown toward the Lord of
the Kingdom
and responsiveness toward each of His servants was enunciated by
Jesus, in
this way:
Dear Vaughn,
You are quite right. I remembered that passage only a few minutes ago
when I was responding to someone on
Becasue the Baha'i Faith arose in Persia, our daughters have names
in the
Farsi form.
But does that signify that we regard Persian culture as somehow more
authentically Baha'i?
The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail)
is sent by the Johnson County
Dear friends,
As the last announcement indicated, I'm presenting a paper at the
American Academy of Religion this weekend. I've not written the
conclusion yet, but I'd like to share with you what I have and get
your feedback.
warmest, Susan
The Covenant as Responsiveness
When Baha’is
I have been thinking about this question for a few weeks.
To what extent is modern global Islamic culture based on
Arab culture?
Dear Tim,
I think it is probably true that Islam has carried more of
the 'baggage' of the culture in which it was born than any of the
other World Religions.
If a Baha'i is married to a non-Baha'i the non-Baha'i can get a
divorce prior to the conclusion ofnbsp;a year of patience.nbsp; They
can do this because Baha'i law is subordinate to civil law.nbsp;
Dear David,
It is possible for a Baha'i to get a civil divorce prior to the end of
the year of
The Wilmette Institute is pleased to offer its course on the Ministry
of Shoghi Effendi (1897-1957), again. Guardian of the Bahá'í Faith
from 1921 until his passing, Shoghi Effendi devoted much of his early
ministry to construction of the administrative order defined in
`Abdu'l-Bahá's Will and
Renaissance Hotel, Washington, DC
Meeting Room 18
Monday, 11/20/2006
4:00 PM - 6:30 PM
Dr. Robert H. Stockman, DePaul University, presiding
4:00 Dr. Susan Maneck, Jackson State University,
Jackson, Miss.
The Bahá'í Covenant as
The cost of the three-month course *Baha'i History, 1863-2000,* which
was to
start November 1, has just been cut in half to encourage more
participation.
Heretofore, individual tuition will be $75 and local study groups will
cost $150.
Don't miss this great opportunity to study the unfoldment of
Dear Friends:
The Wilmette Institute is pleased to announce its 2007 course
schedule. Please spread this information around among your friends,
take it to Feast, etc., Also, please let people know about our
upcoming courses in November and December. We have a lot to offer over
the next year
Huh?
- Original Message -
From: Hasan Elias [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Wednesday, November 1, 2006 4:33 am
Subject: change of sex?
To: Baha'i Studies bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
In bahá'í view a homosexual is a sick heterosexual or perturbed
heterosexual. So change of sex doesn't exist.
Are you saying you know a case where the Baha'i Administration did
not
invalidate a marriage where one partner changed physical gender?
Are there cases where a person who changed genders wished to remain
married as before? Or are we just talking hypothetically?
I would think if a person
The century the Book of Daniel was composed in is disputed.nbsp;
Generally, believers believe it was written in the sixth century BC,
whereas non-believers believe it was written in the second century BC.
Dear David,
There are plenty of believers who also hold it was written in the
second
A long time ago it had occured to me that in the standard Christmas
story, the claim that the magi from the east knew that the messiah
was
going to be born (if taken literally) strongly suggests that some
form
of astrology has some validity.
Dear Gilberto,
The Magi story may well have its
All I know is this, should such a case arrive, it woulod not be
treated as setting a precedent for how the House would deal with
it. There is no such thing as a precedent in Baha`i 'due process'.
Each case would be unique and treated as such.
Dear Scott,
There may not be such a thing as
Sure, but both the NT and the Quran are actually fairly clear on the
point. I've not sure why you'd mention the above ambiguity.
Dear Gilberto,
They are clear that Jesus was born of a virgin, not that Jews expected
this.
warmest, Susan
The information contained in this e-mail and
I have known
Baha'is who married members of the opposite sex in order to pass
within the Baha'i community as heterosexual. I assume that they felt
this was an acceptable approach to their struggles with sexual
preference.
Dear Bill,
Oh, I realize that. It is rather common infact, inside and
So what will the Faith accept as defining gender? What medical
experts say? Chromosomes? Body appearance? What the person
believes
his or her gender to be? If a female changes to a male and later
enrolls in the Faith, can he serve on the House? If a male is
born with
ambiguous
So what happened when someone says they saw a vision? Is it a
God-induced hallucination only visible to one person? Is it an
appearance visible to many people? What about these resurrection
experiences? Physical?
Dear Gilberto,
I'm suggesting we don't really know. When Muhammad saw Jabreel
Dear Brent,
I don't think that what the Baha'i Writings say about the Resurrection
necessitate visionary experiences of the Resurrected Christ, but I
don't think they preclude them either. My conclusions in this regard
are based primarily on the historical evidence.
warmest, Susan
This risen Christ issue was
very big to him, I suppose in contrast to images of
Catholic crucufixes.
Dear Karen,
That's kind of a one-upsman thing Protestants sometimes use against
the Catholics. They claim because they (Protestants) wear empty
crucifixes it represents the resurrection as
Dear David,
Although Abdu'l-Baha does not say so explicitly, my reading of the
early Christian sources, combined with Abdu'l-Baha's interpretation
lead me to think that there were 'ressurrection' appearances of Jesus
after the crucifixtion. They just weren't physical.
warmest, Susan
Congratulations, Scott. Tell us about your book.
- Original Message -
From: Scott Saylors [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Tuesday, October 10, 2006 7:30 am
Subject: Is it okay? . . . .
To: Baha'i Studies bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
. . . to announce the publication of a novel I have written, with
So this is an ebook?
- Original Message -
From: Scott Saylors [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Tuesday, October 10, 2006 3:12 pm
Subject: Re: Is it okay? . . . .
To: Baha'i Studies bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Okay, I'll bite the bullet. If it turns out it's not okay, just
delete the message,
By the way, I think there is a recording of the Master saying a
prayer,
Dear Husayn,
That's correct. There are a couple of them in fact. There is also a
silent movie.
do you know if the Guardian's voice was recorded or if
there is a film of him?
Not that I know of. He was adverse to
Okay, I was wrong in saying that the Writings says anything like
that.nbsp; I would have been referring to something Shoghi Effendi
said about how youth are the most important for the Cause.nbsp;
Should I provide a quote?
Dear David,
In that case I'm guessing he had in mind people under 30.
Dear David,
The term translated as Youth in reference to the Bab and more
especially Baha'u'llah is usually ghulam which literally is a slave
boy. It is an allusion to the story of Joseph.
warmest, Susan
The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail)
is
I mentioned how the Writings speak of youth and their
responsbilities and that the Writings are obviously referring to a
certain age group
Dear David,
Personally, I think Mr. Javeheri gave you the right answer. But why
don't you post those passages from the Writings which you have in mind
Could someone share what the Bahai version is for the quote?
Dear Gilberto,
I found various similiar passages. Here is where it is found in
Baha'u'llah's Writings:
Ye are all the leaves of one tree and the drops of one ocean.
(Baha'u'llah, Tablets of Baha'u'llah, p. 27)
And we
BT, Wikipedia's entry: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lacordaire
puts his
death date as 1861. Is that too late for this quote?
My wife sent this to me today. Does anyone know the correct way
to correct
such a thing? I suppose Mr. Lacordaire could have come up with
it on his
own but
Dear Dick,
If you don't get a response here would you like me to forward you
question to the Tarikh (history) list?
warmest, Susan
- Original Message -
From: Dick Detweiler [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Tuesday, August 29, 2006 2:42 am
Subject: Needed: Video/DVD on Iranian History?
To:
Dear Hasan,
I'm hoping young Shoghi Effendi's essay might silence those who insist
there is something wrong with Baha'is playing competitive games.
warmest, Susan
- Original Message -
From: Hasan Elias [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Wednesday, August 9, 2006 1:06 am
Subject: bahá'í view on
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