Ian,
All duly noted. I understand the point you were trying to make now.
I would love to learn more about the individual Baha'is during the
Third Reich.
Rich
Ian Kluge wrote:
Dear
Rich,
I,
too, remember our meeting fondly and
likewise hope that this finds you
On Fri, 11 Feb 2005 19:45:44 -0800, Rich Ater [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
[many reasonable comments deleted]
I was just commenting
on the Guardians stance and that he disbanded the community rather than obey
the dictates of a government that fit his criteria as legitimate if heinous.
Maybe
Dear Gilberto,
You wrote: If the Nazis asked him where the German Bahais
were, he could have just said
no, I'll never turn them over. and that would have been
disobedience. But if he disbanded the Bahais that means he
could honestly say that the community didn't officially
exist.
The Nazis
In a message dated 2/10/2005 10:21:43 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
I do not know howeverwhere the fine line is. We sometimes forget how powerful spiritual virtues canbe, how much influence they have on the hearts andsoul of human beings. And that the Bahai faith
Hitler
was never elected Chancellor; in Germanys
last truly democratic election, he pulled 37% of the vote, which means
that 63%
of voters opted for various other parties.
A
government can be legally constituted with 37% or 44% of the vote if
that's a
majority. Look at us
In a message dated 2/11/2005 9:46:34 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
A government can be legally constituted with 37% or 44% of the vote if that's a majority. Look at us south of your border.
Wrong terms! A majority is more than 50%. A PLURALITY is the most votes received
In a message dated 2/12/2005 1:54:35 AM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Maybe I misunderstood the example from earlier. I thought the Guardianhad disbanded the community so that he wouldn't be disobeying. If theNazis asked him where the German Bahais were, he could have just
At 23:26 -0500 2/11/05, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
In a message dated 2/11/2005 9:46:34 PM Central Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
A government can be legally constituted with 37% or 44% of the vote
if that's a majority. Look at us south of your border.
Wrong terms! A majority is more
On Sat, 12 Feb 2005 01:30:04 -0900, Sandra Chamberlain
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Dear Gilberto,
You wrote: If the Nazis asked him where the German Bahais
were, he could have just said
no, I'll never turn them over. and that would have been
disobedience. But if he disbanded the Bahais that
Dear Rich,
I, too, remember our meeting fondly and
likewise hope that this finds you and your family well.
Let me add as a prefatory note that Im
sure some people are wondering about why we are discussing this in such detail
on Bahai Studies. However, I think it is important to get
In a message dated 2/12/2005 4:04:00 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Id be curious to know how many of the men went into the German Wehrmacht, which was the one place a person could be beyond the reach of the Gestapo, the SA or the SS.
Well, it was not entirely a safe
Kluge
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2005
3:54 PM
To: Baha'i
Studies
Subject: Re: Just governments...
In a message dated 2/12/2005 4:04:00 PM Central Standard
Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes
In a message dated 2/12/2005 6:47:44 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
To be clear: the SA (Sturmabteiling) per se did not end in the Night of the Long Knives. Lutze was its next leader. What ended was the SA as the Nazis left, i.e. truly socialist wing, those, who like Roehm
explanation. Which is why so many of us
choose to refer you back to the Writings of the Central
Figures.
With regard to obedience/disobedience to governments... there
is a qualifier that seems to be missing from the discussion.
That word is just. Obedience to JUST governments.
It is incumbent upon
Sandra wrote:
With regard to obedience/disobedience to governments... there
is a qualifier that seems to be missing from the discussion.
That word is just. Obedience to JUST governments.
***
This highlights the issue which has been in many ways most problematic since
becoming a Baha'i
that seems to be missing from the discussion.
That word is just. Obedience to JUST governments.
Ok.
-Gilberto
--
pharaoh is just a leaf on a burning bush
__
You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com
On Thu, 10 Feb 2005 13:43:31 -0800, David Lambert [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Sandra wrote:
With regard to obedience/disobedience to governments... there
is a qualifier that seems to be missing from the discussion.
That word is just. Obedience to JUST governments.
This highlights
Gilberto wrote:
It still seems really odd to think that even when being civil and
non-violent, that political behavior might still have other constraints put
on it.
As I understand the Bahá'í teachings, politics are considered divisive and
as such to be avoided. That does not mean one cannot
With regard to obedience/disobedience to governments... there
is a "qualifier" that seems to be missing from the discussion.
That word is "just". Obedience to JUST governments.
Hi everyone,
Just wading in briefly. If I remember right, Shoghi Ef
With regard to obedience/disobedience to governments... thereis a qualifier that seems to be missing from the discussion.That word is just. Obedience to JUST governments.
Dear Rich,
You write:
Just wading in
briefly. If I remember right, Shoghi Effendi defined a just government
. Obedience to JUST governments.
1463. Obedience to Just Governments--What It Means
Regarding your question about politics and the Master's Will: The
attitude of the Baha'is must be two-fold, complete obedience to the
government of the country they reside in, and no interference
whatsoever in political
First of all, the Bahai faith puts a lot of emphasis
on the spiritual approach. Bahai communities and
individual Bahais do not always get that that the
world is to be transformed by spiritual means.
Simply put, when a Bahai fails to exemplify the Bahai
teachings to some extend, the teachings
In a message dated 2/10/2005 5:33:11 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Isn't that kind of sad? You see society crashing down and basicallyyou just sit out until something new comes along?
We're promised that as the old order disintegrates, the new order is built up. In other
On Thu, 10 Feb 2005 21:19:30 -0800 (PST), [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
In a message dated 2/10/2005 5:33:11 PM Central Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Isn't that kind of sad? You see society crashing down and basically
you just sit out until something new comes along?
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