"David Powers"
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lnoize.com> cc: 313 list
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Subject: Re: (313) "Jaguar"
Strings on 80s House record?
08/04/03 05:55 PM
Hi,
If it's not a sample there shouldn't be any problem. It's not possible to
copyright just a fragment of a melody really, as far as I have ever heard.
The essential question would have to be raised, does that string line
encompass the "essence" of both songs, or if the additional parts in each
song make them essentially two different compositions.
After all, no one has ever claimed a jazz musician has to get copyright
clearance when they "quote" a fragment of a popular song in the middle of
their solo. That is arguably fair use, but I've never heard of a court
case over this issue. By the way, in classical music the concept of theme
and variations is based precisely on writing a new composition over
someone's melody, and there are many other examples of borrowing melodies
too (check Mahler's first symphony or Ives!). So I think history would
support an argument of fair use of a melody in a new compositions, as long
as the new composition is not a "derivative work", which would be protected
by copyright law. Of course, who knows what you could get a judge to buy
who had little understanding of music.
_Dave
---------- Original Message -------------
Subject: Re: (313) "Jaguar" Strings on 80s House record?
Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2003 16:08:14 -0500
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Klaas-Jan Jongsma <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
You're kidding right? A coincidence? Everything in that string bit is in
Jaguar -even how the notes waver before the descending notes come in.
This more than sounds " a lot like" it - the strings in Jaguar clearly is a
sample of that track with maybe a tempo change (and maybe extra
accompaniment over and under to fatten up the sound). Or, it was
reperformed by Rolando using the same keyboard practically note for note -
would be too many coincidences to be a coincidence if you know what I mean.
TCoy probably wouldn't do anything about it because of the use of Eric B. &
Rakim, in the Carino track, would cost a lot more to licence and TCoy would
most likely get sued in turn if Eric B & Rakim knew about it. So, I'm sure
the producer of Carino, if they are alive still, are keeping real quiet and
not bothering with taking any action against Rolando if UR didn't clear it.
This is all a moot point if Rolando/UR cleared it all with the owners of
Carino. Whether that be the performance and the publishing (if it was a
sample) or just the publishing (if Rolando re-performed the section used).
Either way, both tunes are cool and I do hope that UR has got their bases
covered on this.
MEK
Klaas-Jan Jongsma
<[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Kent williams
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
.nl> cc: 313 list
<[email protected]>
Subject: Re: (313) "Jaguar"
Strings on 80s House record?
08/04/03 01:13 PM
On maandag, aug 4, 2003, at 20:08 Europe/Amsterdam, Kent williams wrote:
> It also is note for note the same as the beginning couple of bars of
> the
> strings in Jaguar ... just interesting to compare.
Oh sure but i think that it so more a coincident, i once got accused by
someone for copying a melody from a Joy Division record once. I never
realized it until i heard them played bak to back and i had to agree
that my track sounded a lot like that Joy Division track :)
> My friend who found that thought that Rolando was copying; I argued
> that
> the string line on both are fairly generic and depend on the context
> for
> any distinctiveness.
>
> On Mon, 4 Aug 2003, Klaas-Jan Jongsma wrote:
>> Well they use the same (Oberheim?) synth for sure, but that is where
>> the comparison ends i think?
>>
>> On maandag, aug 4, 2003, at 19:48 Europe/Amsterdam, Kent williams
>> wrote:
>>
>>> My friend Rich found this:
>>>
>>> http://www.psychiatry.uiowa.edu/~kent/Carino-TCOY.mp3
>>>
>>> Listen to the string synth at the beginning, contrast and compare
>>> with
>>> synth strings in "Night of the Jaguar"
>>>
>>
>
