Dear Karthik, I agree with you in terms of working out math or chemistry questions. But please remember, scribes duty is to verbatim read the question and take down the answer as you say but not imply in his own words. He is also not supposed to reread the question in simple words or explain you the situation in his or her own words. Do you know? We make mistakes just because we don't understand the way the question is formatted though we know the concept and the correct answer. This happens mainly in the coding. Implications can be in many ways. Even if I give him wrong final value but the process is correct, do you suggest that he should fix my final value by implying? Sited students will calculate the answer and mark on the answer sheet without scratch paper, so why not us in the mind? We can give the scribe final answer. If you tell the scribe to do the problem, he may make math error or if you have to calculate that problem, you might make simple math error which might get you wrong answer. Take your example, calculating the inverse of a 3/3 or above, the process is extremely simple but we end up making math errors due to lot of numbers. So this is something scribe cannot do for us. So indirectly, we are asking the scribe to solve a problem for us which is not fare. Since he worked with us before does not mean that he should imply that you know the answer and write. In nervousness and under time constraint, we end up making silly mistakes though we know the correct answer. So why scribe should fix those mistakes? When sited students don't have this competitive advantage of working with a person who knows the answers, then why us? If you give me this privilege, I can go and crack IIT-JE or gate or cat, or CA or IAS or ICW or any exam you can think of without any problem. I have people who went through these exams and did not clear or cleared. Since they know how to work on these exams, I can maybe hit top rank or at least clear without much of my talent. Do you think this is not possible? We are talking about being fare but how many people will use this opportunity fairly? If people are already using these kind of opportunities well, then why problems of getting job or competing with main stream society? I know many people who did not even go to college for one days but got 90%. Do you think this is possible? I do however; understand that the visual part is bad for us. for example, when I took SAT, globe detective agency administered the test. They sat with us for the entire duration of the test looking for the similarities of my answers and scribe's pen marks. So at least there should be someone proctoring the exam when own scribe is given or it should be videotaped to ensure fare exam. people can find 100 ways to miss use the opportunity. So before we make guidelines, we have to consider all possibilities. I just would like to remind that finding the invers of a matrix might be tricky for a blind person but it would be really easy since the sited student can see the numbers. I also propose that the question paper should be given in brail audio or in print. Then the students can choose to opt his or her preference. Then he or she should be able to record answers in to blank audio recorder. This way, he or she can walk through the entire process so that the valuators can consider even if the final answer is wrong. When we are talking about competitive exams like IIT, CA and CAT, most questions other than maybe few sections are multiple choice. So a student can be given a scribe for scribing the essay or writing part and remaining questions, the student has to answer. As I mentioned above, the definition of the scribe is to read questions verbatim as on the test paper. he or she is not supposed to explain. So when test paper is read by an experienced person in to audio tape or record, then that will be equal to a science or subject oriented scribe. If we don't make strict but fare accommodations, then people will continue to miss use. For example, as I mentioned, at MIT, I will not even know who the scribe is till I enter the room. then we have to turn the video recorder on before we begin the exam. we are not supposed to talk each other about test questions. Of course this is bit harsh but I believe this is fare. Regards,
-----Original Message----- From: Kartik Sawhney [mailto:sawhney.kar...@gmail.com] Sent: Monday, November 18, 2013 3:35 PM To: presidentsrika...@gmail.com; AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues concerning the disabled. Subject: Re: [AI] Good news for blind engineering aspirants-changes in JEE Main guidelines Hi Srikanth, While I agree with you for most part, I strongly feel that in competitive exams like IIT-JEE and other entrance exams where speed is utmost important, it's important that you've worked with the scribe for quite sometime in advance. consider this: you are not allowed the use of any assistive technology for scratch work, and you're trying to solve a question in linear algebra (say calculating the inverse of a matrix), it'll take a very long time explaining the scribe how the inverse is to be calculated. Instead, you would probably want to walk him through the process real quick, and since he's already worked with you on a similar problem, he can understand what you imply. Or, maybe, consider a question involving optical isomerism in Organic Chemistry, you would probably want the configuration to be described in a particular non-ambiguous way, rather than wasting your time trying to figure out how you want your scribe to explain that to you. To curve unfair means, it is invigilation which needs to be strengthened. Isn't that done to curve the use of unfair means for sighted students? Then, why not for us? I'm aware of the situation that you've described, and it is indeed deplorable. However, making such norms that inhibit genuine talent at the cost of trying to ensure a fair exam is not, in my view, the best way to go forward. Either we need to allow assistive technology to enable the blind student to take the test independently and just rely on the scribe to bubble the responses, or we need to provide the candidate with a comfortable atmosphere with strong invigilation. BTW, I, too, am totally against segregating blind students for the purposes of taking exams. Best, On 11/18/13, Srikanth Bolla <presidentsrika...@gmail.com> wrote: > Don't worry. I have your number now > > -----Original Message----- > From: AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On > Behalf Of Kartik Sawhney > Sent: Monday, November 18, 2013 2:34 PM > To: accessindia > Subject: [AI] Good news for blind engineering aspirants-changes in JEE > Main guidelines > > Hi all, > > It gives me immense pleasure to share with you that CBSE has amended > its rule for Joint Entrance Examination (main), the entrance > examination for most of the tech schools in the country (also a > qualifying exam for the IITs). Until last year, the Board allowed a > non-Science scribe (from Commerce (without Mathematics) or Humanities) > stream, and that too from class XI (two years junior to the > candidate). this had several issues, most notably that the scribe will > not be familiar with the technical symbols on the test, and hence will not be able to convey those to the candidate. > > According to the information brochure for JEE Main 2014, there is no > eligibility criteria for a scribe. Moreover, the candidate can opt to > bring his/her own scribe. In case the candidate opts to use a scribe > provided by the centre superintendent of the test centre, the > superintendent needs to ensure that both the scribe and the candidate > meet at least an hour before the examination to get comfortable with each other. > > Unfortunately, nothing has been done to make the diagrams on the test > accessible. Further, JEE Advanced (the entrance exam for IITs), allows > a Science student as a scribe, but from class XI. It also does not > allow the candidate to brin his/her own scribe. Despite all of this, I > feel we are close. I would urge the organisations working for the > blind to take this forward, and help future Science aspirants get the > benefits of the elite education imparted at these institutes. > > The information brochures for both the exams are located on their > respective websites at http://jeemain.nic.in and > http://jeeadv.iitd.ac.in. > > Best, > > -- > -Kartik Sawhney, > Cell: +1-(650) 492-3220 > E-mail ID: sawhney.kar...@gmail.com (all personal E-mails); > karti...@stanford.edu (all academic E-mails) > Skype: kartik.sawhney22 > > Register at the dedicated AccessIndia list for discussing > accessibility of mobile phones / Tabs on: > http://mail.accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/mobile.accessindia_acc > essind > ia.org.in > > > Search for old postings at: > http://www.mail-archive.com/accessindia@accessindia.org.in/ > > To unsubscribe send a message to > accessindia-requ...@accessindia.org.in > with the subject unsubscribe. > > To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, > please visit the list home page at > http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org > .in > > > Disclaimer: > 1. Contents of the mails, factual, or otherwise, reflect the thinking > of the person sending the mail and AI in no way relates itself to its > veracity; > > 2. AI cannot be held liable for any commission/omission based on the > mails sent through this mailing list.. > > > Register at the dedicated AccessIndia list for discussing > accessibility of mobile phones / Tabs on: > http://mail.accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/mobile.accessindia_acc > essindia.org.in > > > Search for old postings at: > http://www.mail-archive.com/accessindia@accessindia.org.in/ > > To unsubscribe send a message to > accessindia-requ...@accessindia.org.in > with the subject unsubscribe. > > To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, > please visit the list home page at > http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org > .in > > > Disclaimer: > 1. Contents of the mails, factual, or otherwise, reflect the thinking > of the person sending the mail and AI in no way relates itself to its > veracity; > > 2. AI cannot be held liable for any commission/omission based on the > mails sent through this mailing list.. > -- -Kartik Sawhney, Cell: +1-(650) 492-3220 E-mail ID: sawhney.kar...@gmail.com (all personal E-mails); karti...@stanford.edu (all academic E-mails) Skype: kartik.sawhney22 Register at the dedicated AccessIndia list for discussing accessibility of mobile phones / Tabs on: http://mail.accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/mobile.accessindia_accessindia.org.in Search for old postings at: http://www.mail-archive.com/accessindia@accessindia.org.in/ To unsubscribe send a message to accessindia-requ...@accessindia.org.in with the subject unsubscribe. To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please visit the list home page at http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in Disclaimer: 1. Contents of the mails, factual, or otherwise, reflect the thinking of the person sending the mail and AI in no way relates itself to its veracity; 2. AI cannot be held liable for any commission/omission based on the mails sent through this mailing list..
