The FCC / WinnForum standard specifies a aggregate power level at any point in the PAL of -80dB/10Mhz at 1.5M measured into a unity gain antenna. It does not take into account timing or synchronization.
The only coexistence that exists as a standard is the RF level inside the PAL. Revision 2 of the standard does not include coexistence, and there is no agreement for version 3 at this point. Mark Mark Radabaugh Amplex 22690 Pemberville Rd Luckey, OH 43443 419-261-5996 > On Jul 28, 2020, at 6:11 PM, Matt Hoppes <mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net> > wrote: > > > Not at all. If I am running the same standard as someone else and the same > split then I can synchronize with them and we aren’t going to interfere even > if we’re relatively close. If on the other hand we are not running the same > standards in the same split then we are going to interfere with each other > even if we are very far away from each other. > >>> On Jul 28, 2020, at 6:01 PM, Mike Hammett <af...@ics-il.net> wrote: >>> >> >> The standards and settings are irrelevant. Tx power - loss = receive power. >> >> >> >> ----- >> Mike Hammett >> Intelligent Computing Solutions >> >> Midwest Internet Exchange >> >> The Brothers WISP >> >> >> >> >> From: "Matt Hoppes" <mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net> >> To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" <af@af.afmug.com> >> Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2020 4:55:27 PM >> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Auction results so far >> >> How does the SASI sure there will be no interference? Since you can run so >> many different standards and settings? >> >> >> >> On Jul 28, 2020, at 5:03 PM, Steve Jones <thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> >> Yep, and anyone not operating in cbrs without SAS gets big dollar reminders >> to stop >> >>> On Tue, Jul 28, 2020, 3:59 PM Kurt Fankhauser <lists.wavel...@gmail.com> >>> wrote: >>> Josh, >>> >>> You will have interference protection through the SAS so that someone just >>> can't blindly fire up right on top of your channel right next to you. Every >>> AP has to get a grant from SAS before it can transmit. Also if Demand says >>> 15 there is no way to tell if that is 15 individual bidders or if 4-5 >>> bidders are trying to bid on 4x10mhz channels each. We will know when the >>> auction is over more info but while the auction is taking place everything >>> is a secret. >>> >>> >>>> On Tue, Jul 28, 2020 at 4:09 PM Josh Luthman <j...@imaginenetworksllc.com> >>>> wrote: >>>> Well if you do licensed PTP links it seems you don't get any kind of >>>> interference protection if someone else doesn't play by the rules and they >>>> don't get any punishment for doing so... >>>> >>>> If you think CBRS will give you interference free protection I'd love to >>>> know you do because I don't feel that's going to be a game changer for >>>> hitting customers. >>>> >>>> Josh Luthman >>>> Office: 937-552-2340 >>>> Direct: 937-552-2343 >>>> 1100 Wayne St >>>> Suite 1337 >>>> Troy, OH 45373 >>>> >>>> >>>>> On Tue, Jul 28, 2020 at 3:42 PM Steve Jones <thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> drinking! They be purchased after the auction? >>>>> Divided over 10 years, it's a manageable number for interference free >>>>> spectrum. What do you pay per year in interference related truck rolls, >>>>> tech time and list satisfaction? >>>>> >>>>>> On Tue, Jul 28, 2020, 12:06 PM Mike Hammett <af...@ics-il.net> wrote: >>>>>> Obviously the last round is public knowledge. After the auction is over, >>>>>> are the results of all rounds public information? >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> ----- >>>>>> Mike Hammett >>>>>> Intelligent Computing Solutions >>>>>> >>>>>> Midwest Internet Exchange >>>>>> >>>>>> The Brothers WISP >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> From: "Mark Radabaugh" <m...@amplex.net> >>>>>> To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" <af@af.afmug.com> >>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2020 11:11:20 AM >>>>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Auction results so far >>>>>> >>>>>> Correct - no way to tell who is bidding. The complete list of bidders >>>>>> is public knowledge: >>>>>> https://www.fcc.gov/document/auction-105-35-ghz-qualified-bidders >>>>>> >>>>>> Which counties those 271 bidders are bidding on is only known by the FCC >>>>>> >>>>>> Mark >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Jul 28, 2020, at 12:03 PM, Josh Luthman <j...@imaginenetworksllc.com> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> I assume the 14 or 15 bidders is a closely guarded secret? I can't >>>>>> begin to think who would be able to pay 30k around here for that besides >>>>>> Verizon/AT&T/Sprint... >>>>>> >>>>>> Josh Luthman >>>>>> Office: 937-552-2340 >>>>>> Direct: 937-552-2343 >>>>>> 1100 Wayne St >>>>>> Suite 1337 >>>>>> Troy, OH 45373 >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> On Tue, Jul 28, 2020 at 11:37 AM Mark Radabaugh <m...@amplex.net> wrote: >>>>>>> Note that the confidentiality and anti collusion rules apply for anyone >>>>>>> who filed the short form. Be very careful that what you say in here >>>>>>> does not violate the FCC rules. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Everything discussed so far is from the public information the FCC is >>>>>>> releasing or from the auction public notice. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> To read the results Josh posted: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The price does not include discounts - 75% of the posted price if you >>>>>>> qualified as being under 25M/year in revenue - so closer to 27k >>>>>>> There is also a rural provider credit. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> It reads: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> In the initial round the price of one 10Mhz PAL was $21,000 not >>>>>>> counting any discounts you may have been eligible for. There were 14 >>>>>>> bids at that price, with only 7 lots available. >>>>>>> In the second round the price of one PAL was $24,000 (less discounts). >>>>>>> There were 15 bids at that price, with only 7 available. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> In the 5th round the price for one PAL went up to $33,000 (less >>>>>>> discounts) with demand down to 10 PAL’s. The price went up for ALL 7 >>>>>>> of the PAL’s. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The price will keep going up until the demand is equal to 7. Once >>>>>>> demand gets to 7 there is still a posted price increase - but unless >>>>>>> someone adds additional demand the price will stay at the previous >>>>>>> start of round price. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The price/demand could sit at 7 for the next (insert number) of rounds >>>>>>> and then start going back up if another bidder decides they are priced >>>>>>> out of one county and want to move to another county. Or if they are >>>>>>> just playing games. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Once a county is at or above a demand for 7 PAL’s the price won’t go >>>>>>> down. If you get a PAL in a round and later decide you don’t want >>>>>>> it, you are stuck buying it unless someone else bids at the higher >>>>>>> price. You can change your demand to 0, saying you don’t want it >>>>>>> anymore, but unless someone else wants it you are stuck with it. Just >>>>>>> like a normal auction - once you are the winning bidder, you own it >>>>>>> unless someone outbids you. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> For bidders there are required activity levels that you have to meet. >>>>>>> Essentially you have to bid 95% of your initial deposit on each round. >>>>>>> If you don’t bid that what you are allowed to bid in the next round >>>>>>> goes down. The rule is basically to keep bidders from sandbagging - >>>>>>> if you haven’t been bidding and are just waiting to see what others are >>>>>>> going to do you will run out of eligibility pretty quickly. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Mark >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Jul 28, 2020, at 10:24 AM, Cassidy B. Larson <c...@infowest.com> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> It’s up to 37k per 10mhz block. Demand is going down though! lol >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Jul 28, 2020, at 08:22, Josh Luthman <j...@imaginenetworksllc.com> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> No idea how to read this: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> <image.png> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Josh Luthman >>>>>>> Office: 937-552-2340 >>>>>>> Direct: 937-552-2343 >>>>>>> 1100 Wayne St >>>>>>> Suite 1337 >>>>>>> Troy, OH 45373 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Tue, Jul 28, 2020 at 10:20 AM Kurt Fankhauser >>>>>>>> <lists.wavel...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>> Josh, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Is your county up to 30k per 10mhz block? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jul 28, 2020 at 10:08 AM Josh Baird <joshba...@gmail.com> >>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> Assuming it's too late at this point to get into the initial rounds >>>>>>>>> that are taking place this week? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Haven't really been keeping up with this. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jul 28, 2020 at 9:54 AM Adam Moffett <dmmoff...@gmail.com> >>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> I also lost track of the whole auction situation. Will there be >>>>>>>>>> another round later? Seems like nobody bid on some of the counties >>>>>>>>>> around us, and I wish I'd thrown in a minimum bid at this point. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On 7/28/2020 12:40 AM, Steve Jones wrote: >>>>>>>>>> Our starting bid was relatively inexpensive over the ten year term >>>>>>>>>> for our 5 counties and 4 pals each. Almost had the boss talked into >>>>>>>>>> giving it serious consideration so i could pull the trigger on the >>>>>>>>>> auction. then the world ended and that got back burnered. byt the >>>>>>>>>> time we came back to it there was no time to learn enough about the >>>>>>>>>> auction >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Jul 27, 2020 at 9:54 PM Dave <dmilho...@wletc.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> My guess is none... >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Im sooo sick of the BS games the FCC and 'BIG BOYZ' Are playing. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> So funny how they say "Sure anyone can get a pal" >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> FCC should have shoved a big FU to all WISPs and just let us die. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> When I first saw the pricing on our county and surrounding countys >>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>> bid I knew there was no chance. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Let the lawsuits FLY... >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On 7/27/2020 5:51 PM, Seth Mattinen wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> > On 7/27/20 15:42, Mark Radabaugh wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >> https://auctiondata.fcc.gov/public/projects/auction105 >>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> > I'm curious to see how many WISPs actually get a PAL when this is >>>>>>>>>>> > all >>>>>>>>>>> > done. >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>> AF mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> AF@af.afmug.com >>>>>>>>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>> AF mailing list >>>>>>>>>> AF@af.afmug.com >>>>>>>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> AF mailing list >>>>>>>>> AF@af.afmug.com >>>>>>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> AF mailing list >>>>>>>> AF@af.afmug.com >>>>>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> AF mailing list >>>>>>> AF@af.afmug.com >>>>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> AF mailing list >>>>>>> AF@af.afmug.com >>>>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> AF mailing list >>>>>>> AF@af.afmug.com >>>>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>>>>> -- >>>>>> AF mailing list >>>>>> AF@af.afmug.com >>>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> AF mailing list >>>>>> AF@af.afmug.com >>>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> AF mailing list >>>>>> AF@af.afmug.com >>>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>>>> -- >>>>> AF mailing list >>>>> AF@af.afmug.com >>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>>> -- >>>> AF mailing list >>>> AF@af.afmug.com >>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>> -- >>> AF mailing list >>> AF@af.afmug.com >>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >> -- >> AF mailing list >> AF@af.afmug.com >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >> >> -- >> AF mailing list >> AF@af.afmug.com >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >> >> -- >> AF mailing list >> AF@af.afmug.com >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
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