Because the higher/longer the reproduction virus load the more likely
the creation of a worse variant. It's NOT about YOU. IF you don't
want to take the vaccine, then you can stay home. Not those that are
forming the barrier to transmission.
On 7/23/21 2:03 PM, Dennis Burgess wrote:
Why does someone who has made an informed choice not to get vaxxed by
a NON-FDA approved drug have not sit out in timeout? This is a free
society, if you are so scared, you stay home. I will take my chances.
*LTI-Full_175px*
*Dennis Burgess*
*
*Author of "Learn RouterOS- Second Edition”
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*From:* AF <af-boun...@af.afmug.com> *On Behalf Of * Jan-GAMs
*Sent:* Friday, July 23, 2021 3:32 PM
*To:* af@af.afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT somewhat political
There is no having a sane discussion on this topic. This is more like
a whining child having an open temper-tantrum in public. Un-vaxxed
persons are a health hazard and attempting to explain this to a child
is a bit difficult. Those who don't have a vaccine should not be
allowed in public. Every time a non-vaxxed person gets sick with
Covid there is the potential for a new variant even worse than the
Delta variant. Un-vaxxed persons should be quarrantined as they are a
health-hazard to everyone around them and to the public at large.
On 7/23/21 1:11 PM, David Coudron wrote:
I know, we can all make our own decisions. However, I don’t
believe I have stated anything that varies from the facts. I can
send you the Moderna sheet I received with my vaccine if you want
to see that.
Your points about FDA approval are probably accurate, however, why
is not OK to say that I want to wait for the approval? That
doesn’t seem so unreasonable. We don’t let folks on the plane
based on the likelihood that those on the no-fly list probably
won’t show up to get on the plane anyway. We still check each
and every person to make sure. Just like we do the FDA approval
process to make sure. Otherwise, we could just tell drug
companies “if you are pretty sure you’d pass anyway, we won’t
bother putting you through the approval process” We don’t do
that for good reason.
I agree with you on the memes both ways. Neither approach are
helping the situation. It should be a discussion based upon the
scientific merits of the situation. Unfortunately both side love
to poke at the intelligence of those that don’t agree with their
decision.
There is no way to know this for sure, but I wonder how many folks
publicly shaming others for not taking the vaccine know that it is
not FDA approved?
Likely won’t change lots of folks decisions, nor am I suggesting
it should have. But I don’t think that those of us that decided
to go ahead with the vaccination get to make medical decisions for
those who aren’t comfortable with an experimental vaccine.
*From:* AF <af-boun...@af.afmug.com>
<mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> *On Behalf Of *Adam Moffett
*Sent:* Friday, July 23, 2021 2:56 PM
*To:* af@af.afmug.com <mailto:af@af.afmug.com>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT somewhat political
I'm not calling anybody stupid, but I don't agree with most of
your list.
On 7/23/2021 3:37 PM, David Coudron wrote:
Here is what I find particularly challenging about suggesting
that folks who have chosen not to take the vaccine are not
that smart.
1. Folks who do that never talk about that fact that this is
not an FDA approved medicine/vaccine. I took the Moderna
vaccine, the paperwork clearly stated several facts. Among
them are:
1. This is not FDA approved.
It has an emergency use authorization. FDA approval takes a long
time, but around 90% of the submissions end up approved because
they are pretty well tested by the manufacturer before they
apply. Anybody applying for FDA approval already has a pretty
good idea whether it's going to go through or not. Presumably
people on a no-fly list don't routinely show up at the airport
expecting to board a plane. Presumably people don't try to get a
CDL if they know they'll fail the drug test. Same idea.
2.
3. This “vaccine” has not been proven to prevent the
virus. While we likely all agree that there is a very
good likelihood that this “vaccine” will help prevent
it, it is far from a proven fact.
99% of people dying of Covid right now are un-vaccinated. We can
split hairs and say maybe it didn't prevent them from becoming
infected, but it clearly prevents them from dying.
4.
2. The argument is, “there should be no reason to think this
vaccine isn’t safe since people aren’t dying from taking
the vaccine”.
I've never heard such an argument.
3. Vaccines are a risk/reward type of medical treatment.
Every medicine you take has some level of side effect. The
vast majority of medicines have such negligible side
effects, that they are considered completely safe. The
FDA approval process exists to ensure we understand the
potential of serious side effects and drug interaction
issues. If you are 30 years old and folks are saying you
have to take this experimental drug to prevent this
incredibly small chance of you becoming seriously ill or
dying, it seems like an intelligent thing to say “I am not
sure the risk of getting seriously ill or dying from this
disease outweighs the risk of using an experimental
drug”. It used to be that people relied upon a
conversation with their doctor to determine personal risk
of disease and use of a drug. Apparently we no longer
do that. We publicly shame people into using
experimental drugs.
4. Since it is not FDA approved, we don’t have a full
understanding of drug interactions with other medicines
folks need to take.
It isn't some weird new chemical we just invented this year.
5. We likely understand the very common medicines, but,
certainly not all. We have FDA approval processes for
good reason. If for example, you were under 40 and were
taking seizure control medication, it would be very fair
to hold off on an experimental drug until it is fully
understood if the vaccine might lessen the effectiveness
of the seizure control medication. An incredibly low
risk of serious illness or death from the virus could turn
into a good chance of serious injury from seizure. As
far as I know data like that is certainly not available yet.
6. Why do vaccinated people feel the need to belittle those
that have decided not to get vaccinated by an experimental
drug?
I don't know the answer to that. I'm not comfortable with that
behavior either. It goes both ways though. Plenty of memes out
there accusing people of being dumb sheep for taking the vaccine.
--
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