I just heard that in my neighborhood two grandparents, vaxed, had been
out and about, and got cases. They then took care of their grandkids
for the weekend. Yep, grandkids came down with it. The grandparents
have very mild cases, the grandkids are still unknown at this time.
These are part of the ramifications. Yes we are going to be going back
to masks.
Because the children.
On 7/23/21 1:32 PM, Jan-GAMs wrote:
There is no having a sane discussion on this topic. This is more like
a whining child having an open temper-tantrum in public. Un-vaxxed
persons are a health hazard and attempting to explain this to a child
is a bit difficult. Those who don't have a vaccine should not be
allowed in public. Every time a non-vaxxed person gets sick with
Covid there is the potential for a new variant even worse than the
Delta variant. Un-vaxxed persons should be quarrantined as they are a
health-hazard to everyone around them and to the public at large.
On 7/23/21 1:11 PM, David Coudron wrote:
I know, we can all make our own decisions. However, I don’t believe
I have stated anything that varies from the facts. I can send you
the Moderna sheet I received with my vaccine if you want to see that.
Your points about FDA approval are probably accurate, however, why is
not OK to say that I want to wait for the approval? That doesn’t
seem so unreasonable. We don’t let folks on the plane based on the
likelihood that those on the no-fly list probably won’t show up to
get on the plane anyway. We still check each and every person to
make sure. Just like we do the FDA approval process to make sure.
Otherwise, we could just tell drug companies “if you are pretty sure
you’d pass anyway, we won’t bother putting you through the approval
process” We don’t do that for good reason.
I agree with you on the memes both ways. Neither approach are
helping the situation. It should be a discussion based upon the
scientific merits of the situation. Unfortunately both side love to
poke at the intelligence of those that don’t agree with their decision.
There is no way to know this for sure, but I wonder how many folks
publicly shaming others for not taking the vaccine know that it is
not FDA approved?
Likely won’t change lots of folks decisions, nor am I suggesting it
should have. But I don’t think that those of us that decided to go
ahead with the vaccination get to make medical decisions for those
who aren’t comfortable with an experimental vaccine.
*From:* AF <af-boun...@af.afmug.com> *On Behalf Of * Adam Moffett
*Sent:* Friday, July 23, 2021 2:56 PM
*To:* af@af.afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT somewhat political
I'm not calling anybody stupid, but I don't agree with most of your list.
On 7/23/2021 3:37 PM, David Coudron wrote:
Here is what I find particularly challenging about suggesting
that folks who have chosen not to take the vaccine are not that
smart.
1. Folks who do that never talk about that fact that this is not
an FDA approved medicine/vaccine. I took the Moderna
vaccine, the paperwork clearly stated several facts. Among
them are:
1. This is not FDA approved.
It has an emergency use authorization. FDA approval takes a long
time, but around 90% of the submissions end up approved because they
are pretty well tested by the manufacturer before they apply.
Anybody applying for FDA approval already has a pretty good idea
whether it's going to go through or not. Presumably people on a
no-fly list don't routinely show up at the airport expecting to board
a plane. Presumably people don't try to get a CDL if they know
they'll fail the drug test. Same idea.
2.
3. This “vaccine” has not been proven to prevent the virus.
While we likely all agree that there is a very good
likelihood that this “vaccine” will help prevent it, it
is far from a proven fact.
99% of people dying of Covid right now are un-vaccinated. We can
split hairs and say maybe it didn't prevent them from becoming
infected, but it clearly prevents them from dying.
4.
2. The argument is, “there should be no reason to think this
vaccine isn’t safe since people aren’t dying from taking the
vaccine”.
I've never heard such an argument.
3. Vaccines are a risk/reward type of medical treatment. Every
medicine you take has some level of side effect. The vast
majority of medicines have such negligible side effects, that
they are considered completely safe. The FDA approval
process exists to ensure we understand the potential of
serious side effects and drug interaction issues. If you
are 30 years old and folks are saying you have to take this
experimental drug to prevent this incredibly small chance of
you becoming seriously ill or dying, it seems like an
intelligent thing to say “I am not sure the risk of getting
seriously ill or dying from this disease outweighs the risk
of using an experimental drug”. It used to be that people
relied upon a conversation with their doctor to determine
personal risk of disease and use of a drug. Apparently we
no longer do that. We publicly shame people into using
experimental drugs.
4. Since it is not FDA approved, we don’t have a full
understanding of drug interactions with other medicines folks
need to take.
It isn't some weird new chemical we just invented this year.
5. We likely understand the very common medicines, but,
certainly not all. We have FDA approval processes for good
reason. If for example, you were under 40 and were taking
seizure control medication, it would be very fair to hold off
on an experimental drug until it is fully understood if the
vaccine might lessen the effectiveness of the seizure control
medication. An incredibly low risk of serious illness or
death from the virus could turn into a good chance of serious
injury from seizure. As far as I know data like that is
certainly not available yet.
6. Why do vaccinated people feel the need to belittle those that
have decided not to get vaccinated by an experimental drug?
I don't know the answer to that. I'm not comfortable with that
behavior either. It goes both ways though. Plenty of memes out
there accusing people of being dumb sheep for taking the vaccine.
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