I was looking at the monthy sheets and you can watch when the decision was made by the two who left was made, and when they were funded. It took them about a year, you see it in the reported revenue, that should have raised a red flag when you see those types of percentage changes. My guess is the final dollars came in with a tax refund, because right about that time you see the revenue reported stabilize and the back rent start to be caught up. My guess is the remaining months were spent grooming clients for the exit, poisoning the well if you will and minimizing the risk of a lawsuit. It explains something that happened, right around the time the anomalies started was around the time the female of the duo pooled the chairs to argue renewal of the lease contracts, effectively stopping the no compete clause from renewing, pretty slick tbh. They rode out the term of the existing no compete, all the while stealing from the shop to fund their investment.
On Thu, Feb 25, 2016 at 10:24 AM, James Howard <ja...@litewire.net> wrote: > Well, if you only cut one hair for each beer they buy it could be > lucrative. “Honey, I got my hair cut for free. Took a few weeks and had > to buy a lot of beer but I got a bargain!” > > > > *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Cameron Crum > *Sent:* Thursday, February 25, 2016 9:47 AM > *To:* af@afmug.com > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Ot buying a salon > > > > Not sure how well that would workout... > > > > On Thu, Feb 25, 2016 at 9:34 AM, Simon Westlake <simon@sonar.software> > wrote: > > I'm still waiting for you to open the Crum Brewery.. maybe you can give > away a free haircut with every beer? > > On 2/25/2016 9:18 AM, Cameron Crum wrote: > > BTW, high end men's salons are becoming a trend, at least in urban areas. > We actually talked about opening one here. My wife says the customer turn > over is a lot faster and they pay almost as much. The idea was to have the > waiting room be a sort of bar/hang out. We give away free beer (2 max, keg > beer - total cost would be like $2/cutomer depending on the beer) and there > would be a pool table, sports games on TV, even a smoking room for cigars > and such. There would be a chair massage (for a fee of course), and a "head > massage specialist" doing shampoos as part of every cut. It wouldn't hurt > to have that one be "Very" attractive. We got into the planning stages and > then one called "The Boardroom" opened up. Oh well. However, I have buddies > who go there. Average price they pay is around $60. Some get straight razor > shaves($20), haircut($30), manicures, pedicures, etc. That is pretty good. > I bet they are out of there within 45 min. Just a haircut and they are > probably out in 30. Compare that to a girl who can take 2+ hours in a chair > and you have a pretty good business. > > > > On Thu, Feb 25, 2016 at 9:04 AM, Cameron Crum <cc...@wispmon.com> wrote: > > They do Simon. In fact, there have been several cases where Hooters was > opening new locations and their stores became ready before they got through > all the legal wranglings for their beer/wine license and they just gave the > beer away. However, I'm pretty sure that most places that serve alcohol > make most of their profit on it, so it wouldn't be smart to give it away in > any volume. I participate in a lot of brewing competitions and we give beer > away all day. Many are at established businesses without liqor licenses. > Federal law says nothing about giving it away. They just want the tax money > if you are selling it. > > > > On Wed, Feb 24, 2016 at 11:38 AM, Simon Westlake <simon@sonar.software> > wrote: > > Really? I'm surprised there aren't more places doing things like 'Free > beer with your meal' or 'buy some peanuts at $5 a bowl and get a free > beer!' but maybe there's already something closing that loophole.. > > On 2/24/2016 11:34 AM, Cameron Crum wrote: > > Obviously check your liquor laws, but in most states you don't need a > license if you are giving it away. > > > > On Wed, Feb 24, 2016 at 11:29 AM, Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote: > > So, become a church... > > > > *From:* That One Guy /sarcasm <thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> > > *Sent:* Wednesday, February 24, 2016 10:23 AM > > *To:* af@afmug.com > > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Ot buying a salon > > > > Booze is not a bad idea, i dont know if you can just give it and not have > a liquor license, but there are no available licenses here, i think we get > one per church, so we have plenty of bars. > > > > A clarification on the relationship between the two, its a strained > familiar relationship due to differences in visions. Both parties are more > than agreeable to the whole scenario, I met with each separately > specifically to see what the dynamic was, I didnt want to get into a train > wreck. The more im learning of the details, there were alot of points in > time where all it would have taken was two people just stopping to talk to > one another and the disaster would have been avoidable, I think, based on > knowing the individuals, that had either one of them not been in the > mother/daughter environment, this would never have happened. > > > > A poor choice in the failure chain was retail, it got transitioned from > commission sales to a mechanism the keep the business floating. Once that > happened two things took place, the chairs saw no real benefit in pushing > it which was made worse by the fact it essentially equated to a pay cut, > and the financier partner saw no gain in risking bringing in any new > retail. In the schooling that costs 16k, they drill that into the girls > heads, retail, retail, retail, without it, all youre offering is a haircut > and everybody offers a haircut. Thats already been an agreed upon term, the > return of retail sales comission, and the return of loss leaders, they > completely eliminated that struggling to float. I was talking to a friend > of mine last night, she crochets artsy shit like baby covers and boob caps, > whatever. these things move like hot cakes in the salons. We had tried to > get them in the salon before, but what the owners wanted was to make profit > on them to the point it wasnt worth it for her to spend the time making > them for what they wanted to pay, on top of that they wanted to sell them > at too much markup. This girl doesnt live here, she has a real talent at > neat stuff. There are two other chics in town that make similar items, but > their styles are identical to one another, and they sell them in all the > salons. > > > > The old lady ended up selling them to other people in a short time for > her, like crack, ladies love crocheted crack. Id have no intention of > making profit on them, thats actually an expected cost. If i lose 5 bucks > on some tit hat, but that client shows it to her girlfriend who just needs > one as well, and were the only joint you can get them, the "staff" has the > option to discount them even further when the new customer comes in to get > one, if they can leverage it for a service and new contact capture. Women > are weird in the crap theyll drive 20 miles to buy, but the chair has the > option to grow their client base, and the shop gets a new marketing > contact, thats always worth 5 or 10 bucks "loss". > > > > I also have an expectation of some loss in inventory to the ether, but one > thing the daughter wanted but the financier partner couldn't justify was > surveillance. That will go in day one, the chairs will know every corner > that can legally be recorded will be. If theyre not serious enough about > the industry to know that theft is a rampant concern, theyre not serious > about growing their small business, and they can find a chair in another > salon. This may be a poor attitude as a business owner, but even a high > revenue generating thief is still a thief, I used to be a thief, so i know > what kind of trash one is deep inside and i dont want them as part of the > team. I know a couple of the salon owners overlook things. I cant do that. > This salon size has potential to reach the sales numbers quickly again to > where the premium pricing comes back, which is something they dont have > right now. combine sales motivation with a digital retail square app or > whatever that broads can but some overpriced shampoo and some nifty curling > iron at a whim on their phone from the bar in the bathroom on their night > out with friends and theres better pricing for more margin to offer as > increased commission. The way i see that, if the store is making 3 dollars > on a bottle of shampoo after commission and the pricing gains happen to > where theres room for 4 dollars on it We can give 50 cents or even the > whole dollar to the chairs in commission. So a chair that normally moves 3 > bottles a week for 9 bucks is motivated to move more, if they move 4, im > still making the same amount i would have made if i pocketed the discount > as an increase in sales, but there not motivated to sell more than 3. Im > over simplifying it, and probably completely wrong, but thats how ive > always seen retail with commission, and salon markup is high > > > > On Wed, Feb 24, 2016 at 9:28 AM, Cameron Crum <cc...@wispmon.com> wrote: > > The thing about being the 51 percent share holder is that you might as > well own the whole thing. You get to make all the decisions. Basically you > could make it very hard for the 49% owner to make a dime off of the > business outside of her labor contribution. I'm not saying you should do > this, but it sounds like there is some dead weight there and it might be > time to move on. However, your best bet is to buy the assets > (Name,chairs,equipment,etc) of the business and leave the corporate > structure alone. They can worry about their own debt and other liabilities > with whatever money you agree to pay. After that it is their problem. Sign > a new lease under the new company with the landlord and go on your way. Now > you don't have to worry about having a boat anchor as a partner. The > current majority owner should be able to make this decision on her own. It > sucks for the daughter and will probably ruin their relationship if they > have one and the mother will probably get sued if she sells it out from > under her daughter, but oh well. I would never buy someone else's known > liabilities especially if I knew the business was in decline. You are > asking for trouble. They either need to clear up the liabilities before the > sale (with proof of such) or sell you the assets only and GTFO. I'm sure > your lawyer and accountant would agree. > > > > I would also worry about the business model a little bit. It would be too > easy to cheat on the % side. Flat booth rent has lower upside, but more > stability, Depending on commission from work leaves a lot of incentive to > hide money, especially if it is a cash business. They WILL make under the > table deals. Product is going to be a big money maker if you know how to > push it. My wife was the AVEDA rep for SoCal for a few years back in the > 90's, and has manged high end salons in Santa Monica and LA. She says that > unless you make every appointment, and actually watch what every stylist > does, it will be difficult to make sure they are being honest. The salon > manager has to really on top of her game and somewhat of a hard ass. > However, product in that business can have HUGE margins. You need to pick a > pretty high end line, and make sure all the stylists are TRAINED correctly > by the reps on how to sell the product, and use that product exclusively > for shampoos and such. Offer them commissions on sales and make sure they > are pushing it. When I was in college I worked on the beach in S. Padre > Island in the summers for a beach service who also happened to be the > Panama Jack distributor for Texas. As we rented umbrellas and chairs and > boogie boards to people, we would push product giving free samples. They > paid me 30% of what I brought in on product, so imagine the profit in a > bottle of junk most of these places are selling. It is similar in the hair > business. > > > > One last thing...free booze. Keep half decent bottles of Cab, Merlot, and > Chardonnay on hand and maybe some decent beer for the occasional guy who > stumbles in or the poor schlub who was dragged along by his gf and offer it > to everyone. Don't let them get drunk, but a glass or two over an hour or > so helps to loosen the purse strings. Feeding the dude a beer or two makes > sitting in a salon more bearable and he might even spring for that $30 > bottle of sweet conditioner that makes his chicks hair soft and smell good > so he can take her home and see how fast he can mess it up. > > > > Good luck > > > > On Wed, Feb 24, 2016 at 5:41 AM, Lewis Bergman <lewis.berg...@gmail.com> > wrote: > > How you pay yourself can depend on the type of corporate form you take. > LLC that are pass through don't pay taxes and all income follows through to > the owner's tax filing via a K1. I agree with forest in that you should > count your salary, even though sometimes you may have to put it right back > in. The other side of that is if you take "excess" pay make sure to record > that on the books in a way you can pull that off in a presentation to a > potential buyer. > You should keep forefront in mind that you must pay no more than what it > is worth no matter what the present owners would like to get out of it. > > > > On Wed, Feb 24, 2016, 3:40 AM Forrest Christian (List Account) < > li...@packetflux.com> wrote: > > I started writing a long post about how to work through this logically, > but it sounds like you're already going down that path. > > The thoughts that occurred to me for you to consider: > > The business part of a failing business isn't worth anything. If you buy > this, you're essentially going to have to pick up scraps (which carry > baggage with them) and try to overcome that baggage. Unless you can put a > hard number on the value of the going business I wouldn't consider it worth > anything. And, one caution: There is a temptation to treat the existing > customers (which may actually be the stylists, not the people getting their > hair cut/nails done) as an asset, but you have to realize that a tarnished > reputation is going to make everything more difficult than it would be if > you started fresh. You have to ask yourself if gaining the existing > business is worth the pain. You may actually decide that the business > part of the business has a negative value as a result. > > Assuming the business part of the business has no value, you need to ask > yourself how much are the physical things you're buying (i.e. the chairs, > nail beds, etc.) worth. That's probably all you want to pay up front. > Paying extra for the 'idea' of a salon seems silly. Remember things > haven't been maintained so some of these are going to have to be replaced, > maybe soon. So you need to look at the depreciated value (how much value > they actually have left) - taking it back to a wisp, if you buy a router > which lasts 5 years, 2.5 years in that router is only worth half as much, > quite possibly even less. Consider that when valuating items. > > Assuming you could come to a purchase price that was reasonable, then, and > only then should you look at the financials to see if you can make it work, > including a reasonable return on investment. > > (Ok that sounded kinda wrong. What I mean is: Don't over pay for the > assets. Don't justify over paying for the assets just because the business > operation numbers (P&L) look good based on your best guesses of costs. > Figure out what the assets are worth (including the business part of the > business), and use that for negotiations, not any percieved potential > future benefit. That isn't what you're paying for - you're paying for the > assets.). > > > > A bit of a note in relation to the above is to mention that if you can > make a business case for a business salon in your town, then there's a good > chance you could start a salon with or without buying the existing > business. That's why I'm saying 'the business part of the business is > probably not worth much, especially with a tarnished reputation'. > > > > Once you get to the point of working through your business operation > numbers (P&L), there are a few caveats/suggestions: > > 1) YOU MUST PAY YOURSELVES. This is important. Plan on paying yourselves > from day one. Figure out what a reasonable pay rate is and pay > yourselves. If you don't do this, you will never ever make any money at > this. It's ok to escalate this with increasing load. For instance, when > you start, you may only need a few hours a week... but still pay > yourselves. One even worse gotcha is that not paying yourself sometimes > indicates to the IRS this isn't intended as a going business and that isn't > something you want to have happen. Ok, it's okay to put a bit of sweat > equity into the business at first, but very shortly, you should start > paying yourself for your time. > > 2) You must consider depreciation of equipment. You're going to have to > replace that equipment sometime, you need to plan for it, and book for > it. This needs to be put in your business plan from day one. That > equipment you purchased costs you on an ongoing basis. If your business > plan doesn't account for replacing the equipment at correct intervals, you > will end up 7 years from now with an even shoddier place which is worth > less than you paid for it. > > 3) Consider an exit strategy. How can you position yourself to be able to > sell this for *more* money than you paid for it a few years from now. > > 4) If "your woman" plans on being a stylist there, consider treating her > from a financial point EXACTLY like any of the other stylists, at least for > her stylist work. That is, charge her rent for her station, etc. etc. > etc. That way she will be pulling an income from the business just like if > she was a stylist elsewhere. This will produce revenue for the business > which it will need to pay the rent and also her salary for management > duties. > > I think that's all I can think of for now... > > I do have one other reference I point ANYONE starting a business to, and > thats a book/website called "business model generation". It contains > tools to help people work through a successful business model. If I was > doing what you're considering, I'd work through this process considering > your customers as your stylists (which seems to be the normal model) which > means the services (aka value proposition) you provide to your customers > are things like providing a workspace, credit card processing, advertising, > etc. Your goal in this business model is to fill every slot in your salon > with happy stylists which you can charge large amounts of money for the > quality workspaces you provide and the continuous flood of new customers > your advertising provides to them. The other option is running a business > model where your customers are the actual people getting their hair and > nails done. > > I'd recommend getting a dead tree version of the book (by Alexander > Osterwalder), but you may want to check the first part out online at > businessmodelgeneration.com... They have a exerpt which is basically an > introduction available. This isn't for everyone - some people just don't > get this book. I haven't figured out a pattern about who this does or > doesn't work for yet either (I'm usually wrong, so maybe it's all the > people I don't think would like it). > > > > In any case, good luck. > > > > > > On Tue, Feb 23, 2016 at 5:57 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm < > thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> wrote: > > Salons are service industry with subcontractorish environments, so it's > not all that different than wisp, except it's all broads. > The salon my woman works at is failing, poor management decisions, > partners who are family (mother funded, daughter managed) mother owns 51 > percent daughter 49. At one point it was an established and successful > business, but feelings got hurt, partners fighting, a staff coup that took > a substantial amount of clientelle, facilities not maintained. No clear > company structure as far as owners getting paid. A 7 thousand dollar and 13 > thousand dollar note owed to the mother partner, etc. Management software > client capture went from over 800 clients to under 200 captures over a one > year span indicating to me the "staff" quit putting a lot of services on > the books and was pocketing the cash. It was an llc but they quit paying it > and transferred it into what they refer to as a partnership with the 51 49 > thing, I have not seen that documentation > > I assume a lot of this could be correlated to many of your purchases of > family run wisps. > > This has the potential to be turned around, the salon had a good > reputation, and volume at one point, and its the only full service one in > the town, so it's not completely failed. There also is room to incorporate > some other sources of revenue into the mix. > > The 51 percent partner wants out, they would like to simply recoup the > majority of their outstanding debt and was their hands of the matter. > Initially this was offered to us for 7k but that left an outstanding > liability of 13 on the business to the same person, and that note is secure > via a mortgage extension. That didn't sound like a good risk so we told > them to get a better proposal consisting of buying out that half of the > partnership as well as a second proposal for buying out the entire > partnership. The "assets" including minimal revenue of a single occupied > station for a year was informally estimated at around 34k. > > The daughter partner who is the primary "contractor" had a 45k recorded > revenue. I don't recall the revenue from the other occupied chair of the 5 > chairs and the retail had substantially dropped, I suspect due to it > becoming free when nobody was looking. > > Recovery could take place, as they offer the full spa set of services, > however they currently are limited in their massage and facials by > contractors who don't show up. This can be resolved fairly quickly for the > massage therapist by recruiting one I'm aware of who is looking for a new > place to operate because her stand alone office did not generate the > revenue to justify the expense and overhead. Also my it job has allowed me > to build good personal relationships with a lot of beneficial businesses, > primarily the beauty school for recruiting fresh "contractors" to fill the > empty chairs, they just don't come with clients. > > This is a more rushed scenario than I would prefer, this was a 3-5 year > plan, but circumstances presented. Our lust for business ownership stands > to cloud judgement, and that in itself is enough to walk away. > > We have a meeting later this week for presentation of the proposals. What > I don't know is what documentation in particular I should request. I can > ask for "financials" but I don't know what that actually means, or what > further information to ask for. > > I'm reaching out here because you guys are my favorite cheap dates, and a > lot of you have experiences more valuable than any advice I could pay an > attorney for. After this next meeting is when our expenses start, so we > need to be able to make a personal judgement at that point if it's a good > enough opportunity to go to a lawyer and start paying for the non > refundable advice. It's also when we make the decision of how foolish we > want to look in front of our bankers. I like my banker though, and he might > be in poor spirits and need a good laugh. > > Smart me knows this is not the right time to take risks like this when I > only have 7 short years til my boy needs a college education and if this > goes south, mom and dads financial support will be out. But the potential > makes it worth looking at, like watching a train wreck. There are also some > other long term prospects this makes possible so that benefit alone makes > it well worth an investigation. > > I really would appreciate some sage advice from experience in small > business. > > From what I have seen, there is no formal business structure, in other > words I don't see > > > > -- > > *Forrest Christian* *CEO, PacketFlux Technologies, Inc.* > > Tel: 406-449-3345 | Address: 3577 Countryside Road, Helena, MT 59602 > > forre...@imach.com | http://www.packetflux.com > > <http://www.linkedin.com/in/fwchristian> <http://facebook.com/packetflux> > <http://twitter.com/@packetflux> > > > > > > > > -- > > If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team > as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team. > > > > > > -- > > Simon Westlake > > Skype: Simon_Sonar > > Email: simon@sonar.software > > Phone: (702) 447-1247 > > --------------------------- > > Sonar Software Inc > > The next generation of ISP billing and OSS > > https://sonar.software > > > > > > > > -- > > Simon Westlake > > Skype: Simon_Sonar > > Email: simon@sonar.software > > Phone: (702) 447-1247 > > --------------------------- > > Sonar Software Inc > > The next generation of ISP billing and OSS > > https://sonar.software > > > ------------------------------ > > *Total Control Panel* > > Login <https://asp.reflexion.net/login?domain=litewire.net> > > To: ja...@litewire.net > <https://asp.reflexion.net/address-properties?aID=242260993&domain=litewire.net> > > From: > 01000153191c9a54-6358a9c4-2153-4357-9f4e-5c2ea9acf2d4-000...@amazonses.com > > Remove > <https://asp.reflexion.net/FooterAction?ver=3&un-wl-sender-domain=1&hID=14006740607&domain=litewire.net> > amazonses.com from my allow list > > *You received this message because the domain amazonses.com > <http://amazonses.com> is on your allow list.* > > > -- If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.
