You are aware that Obama gutted that legislation illegally? Rory
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Ken Hohhof Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2016 9:47 PM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Anti-immigration - Puck 1893 You are aware there was a welfare reform act passed in 1996? From: Rory Conaway<mailto:r...@triadwireless.net> Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2016 11:13 PM To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Anti-immigration - Puck 1893 I was specific Ken, “welfare”. If I meant to say Social Security, I would have said that but I was in a hurry. However, I would also add, unemployment as a huge, anyone that mysteriously became disabled when their unemployment ran out, and anyone getting any kind of public assistance. If you are working and can’t make ends meet, fine then that needs to be reviewed. If you aren’t working but can and aren’t looking for a job, then you do public works, work on a farm, or you lose your benefits. And mandatory drug testing for ANYONE getting a single penny of taxpayer dollars. Rory From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Ken Hohhof Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2016 8:56 PM To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Anti-immigration - Puck 1893 You need to not use the term “welfare check” and be specific what type of government assistance you are talking about. Unemployment insurance? Social Security? Medicare/Medicaid? SNAP? Housing assistance? Earned income tax credit? Lifeline? The answer depends on what kind of assistance you are talking about. As an employer who pays into unemployment insurance, I don’t like the guys I see at home playing video games and collecting unemployment insurance who could be out working. And I heard a report once on something like 60 Minutes that disability fraud is rampant, with crooked lawyers specializing in submitting the fraudulent paperwork. But I believe most SNAP cards actually go to working parents with minimum wage jobs, sometimes more than one job. My sister with MS needs her Social Security Disability check, she wouldn’t be much use on a farm. So it all depends. It also depends on the type of farm work. In the southwest, they need seasonal workers to pick crops. By me there are the pig farms that hire a lot of Hispanic workers, it’s not a very attractive job, but it’s not seasonal. At least some of the worst jobs are being automated. I saw an article that they are developing robots to do slaughterhouse work, cutting up the carcasses. I don’t wish that job even on illegal immigrants. From: Josh Reynolds<mailto:j...@kyneticwifi.com> Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2016 9:35 PM To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Anti-immigration - Puck 1893 That's a tough one. On one hand, with the government already giving out welfare checks that could help with labor costs on small and medium farms - work the farm, get a check. So, what's to encourage a farmer to pay more than minimum wage (discouraging potential applicants internationally) if he can just tell the Fed "send me workers". I also personally know cases of very good high level workers in various industries who had problems for over a year finding a job - but once they finally did after hundreds of applications, they were back to making six figures or higher. It's hard to work somewhere for 20 years or more and retire there unless in government or state work. Decent idea, but it would need some controls in place so it doesn't cause inadvertent issues. +1 On Mar 13, 2016 9:26 PM, "Rory Conaway" <r...@triadwireless.net<mailto:r...@triadwireless.net>> wrote: I got to thinking about the labor issue with the farms. I’m having a hard time understanding how we can have tens of millions of people on government assistance and we can’t find farm workers. I’d like to make working on farms or other businesses being a requirement for a welfare check. Rory From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com<mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com>] On Behalf Of Josh Reynolds Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2016 7:09 PM To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Anti-immigration - Puck 1893 Some are here for jobs, some are here to escape massive corruption and drug cartels. These are jobs that most American's don't want to do - either the work is "too hard" or pay "too low" - which really the latter is true. I came from a farm community (Kentucky Tobacco) and have seen how hard they work. Many have two or three jobs, and they share a trailer and a truck. They take shifts sleeping on the available beds, and send most of their checks home to their families to take care of them. Some save to bring their families here. Very few of these workers were paid minimum wage, but they were often given a trailer to stay in (for the group). Rows and rows of trailers per farm. You deport these guys, American agriculture will suffer. The farm subsidies get sucked up by the conglomerates, and the regular guys get very little. The drug demand has nothing to do with illegal or legal. Have you ever done any drugs? Ever? My guess is no, but I've been wrong before - ask my wife! Drugs are an escape, a booster, and the harder ones are ruthlessly addictive, both physically and psychologically. Just once or twice is enough to make it very difficult if not impossible to overcome by yourself, if ever. And they are SO CHEAP (meth, heroin). On Mar 13, 2016 8:49 PM, "Lewis Bergman" <lewis.berg...@gmail.com<mailto:lewis.berg...@gmail.com>> wrote: Really, you think we would have massive illegal immigration if we had no jobs being offered then? You also believe that if nobody demanded drugs there would be people killing each other to get it here? We can disagree on if punishing a drug user is either right it would make any difference on then wanting the drug. But you surely cannot argue that it is demand that drives the supply, not the other way around. My point is just that the demand for cheap labor and the willingness to break the law to get it drives illegal immigration. I think you are letting your desire for penalty fee drug use get in the way of your judgement. OK, I made that last part up but you really don't understand the basics of supply and demand? On Sun, Mar 13, 2016, 8:08 PM Josh Reynolds <j...@kyneticwifi.com<mailto:j...@kyneticwifi.com>> wrote: agreed Legal or illegal, has nothing to do with drugs. If people want to do something they will. On Mar 13, 2016 7:28 PM, "Jerry Head" <li...@blountbroadband.com<mailto:li...@blountbroadband.com>> wrote: " Kind of like the drug problem. As long as you don't penalize the user you get increasing demand." This has got to be one of the most ignorant comments I have ever seen on this list. Wow.... On 3/13/2016 6:35 PM, Lewis Bergman wrote: I agree with that. Kind of like the drug problem. As long as you don't penalize the user you get increasing demand. If you don't punish the employer you get increasing demand. On Sun, Mar 13, 2016, 2:56 PM Jaime Solorza <losguyswirel...@gmail.com<mailto:losguyswirel...@gmail.com>> wrote: Far less than many believe.... you need documentation which of course can be faked...but percentage wise more welfare in southern states. Most undocumented workers fend for themselves holding two or three shit jobs no one wants. See who is working on highways late at night or in hot sun in Texas...a white foreman and ton of Hispanics.... I have travelled just about every rode in Texas.... go to Chile harvests in Hatch,NM. Like I said..no demand, no supply.... simple Adam Smith theory in action. On Mar 13, 2016 1:06 PM, "Lewis Bergman" <lewis.berg...@gmail.com<mailto:lewis.berg...@gmail.com>> wrote: Immigration should have been unfettered in 1893 because there was no welfare state in existence then. The combination of unrestricted immigration and a comprehensive welfare system has the potential to bankrupt the U.S. I have no idea if immigrants make up a larger part of the welfare system than any other, just that the potential is there. On Sun, Mar 13, 2016, 11:35 AM Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com<mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>> wrote: [http://thedabbler.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/Looking-Backward.jpeg]
