I never suggested not being safe.
Here is a fragment of the post that started this thread:
“This was a hard roof, tall and not LOS and we were done in the truck heading
home in just under two hours. But that was two guys and we ran.
Ok so this is getting long sorry about that but I just am at a loss with this
guy. I did realize on that last job I run on job sites. I always run to the
truck back from the truck and I think ahead. This guy defiantly does not run
and nothing is done with any sense of urgency. “
So who are you being the advocate for in this situation? Me, I am 100% on the
side of the employer here.
Sounds like some of you are on the side of telling the employer to fuck off.
The point being argued is not safety, not being abusive, it is not even
running. It is a slow employee with no sense of urgency. How can anyone
defend that?
From: Josh Reynolds
Sent: Monday, April 24, 2017 9:04 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process.
Am soldier, no longer enlisted.
No one is dying by not having internet, but they could die in a ladder accident
or cordless drill accident or by sliding on ice and bashing their head by
trying to rush on the job site.
Once you get shot at and blown up a few times in a third world shit hole, it
really puts things into perspective.
Your install numbers are not worth a life. If they are, well, that's your call
and you get to live with that for better or worse.
- Josh
On Apr 24, 2017 9:46 AM, "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:
Can you imagine telling your employer to fuck off (when asked to hustle) in
the following jobs?
Soldier
Life Guard
Fireman
EMT
Cop
Airline baggage loader, unloader
Airline fuel line operator
Personal Trainer
Flat Rate Roofer
Athlete
ER Nurse
Fast Food worker during lunch
Package sorter/truck loader UPS (I had this job once)
Ranch hand staking hay.
Subway sandwich maker during lunch.
Meat cutter.
I could be here all day listing jobs that require you to jog/hustle/run.
I do not think it is in any way unreasonable to ask an installer to have some
spring in their step.
From: Chuck McCown
Sent: Monday, April 24, 2017 8:31 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process.
Not saying to rush for the sake of rushing, saying to go fast. Do things
perfectly in the least amount of time possible. That means hustle. Why would
you chose to slowly drag your ass between the truck and the house? There is
absolutely no justification for not jogging back and forth. Not saying to
sprint or full on run. Just jog, show some hustle. Economy of movements.
That includes tool and supply organization.
At the end of the day it is now many perfect installs you do a day. If you
get more than the other guy and you drag your ass, I would not can you,
probably give you a raise.
But if you were dragging your ass, leaving the shop late, BSing instead of
working I would tell you to ‘hustle” one time...
From: Josh Reynolds
Sent: Monday, April 24, 2017 8:24 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process.
To tell the truth, I'd be telling you to fuck off as well.
Having an employee run is a liability for several reasons. Rushing leads to
forgotten things and shoddy work, and tying installs to pay with cause you to
end up with the install quality that DirecTV subcontractors do, as they get
paid per room/job as well. It's absolutely shit work that looks bad and often
has problems you will have to roll a truck for.
Slow and smooth, measured work, thought out in advance with no wasted
efficiency. THAT will be fast and quality work.
"Slow is smooth, smooth is fast."
In the end, it's your business. I'm just some guy.
- Josh
On Apr 24, 2017 8:57 AM, "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:
Well then you would not be working for me. Or UPS or FedEX or Les Schwab
or Tunex or ......
Treating someone like crap is a far different thing than treating them like
an adult. You own their work output when they are on the clock and they need
to work efficiently.
It is not unreasonable at all to expect some hustle. I don’t pay anyone to
take their time.
From: Timothy Steele
Sent: Monday, April 24, 2017 7:53 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process.
If you treat your employees like crap like that there going to start
looking for a new boss I know if I was walking to the house and you told me to
run I would quit on the spot if that's what you want then go for it
On Mon, Apr 24, 2017, 9:43 AM Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:
You cannot expect a younger person to run for any reason until they
decide that it might benefit them, and even them real hustle will be rare.
I would put them on piece rate or daily rate and tell them they have to
do at least 3 per day to keep their job. Once they are doing 3, then up it to
4 or keep them on piece rate.
Have you actually said “RUN!” when they were walking from truck to house?
Have them watch the first half of full metal jacket and give them a bit of
drill sergeant treatment.
I believe in “management by telling” you actually have to tell them, in
simple and clear terms exactly what you want.
From: Brandon Yuchasz
Sent: Sunday, April 23, 2017 5:37 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process.
I was going to type a long PC type post about this (which I did anyway
sorry) . But instead I am going to just ask how you guys go about trying to
teach / train a new installer to work faster?
We have a guy right now that was hired to be an installer with other
duties as assigned. He is good at the other duties and has a good understanding
of networking, computers and even RF. The problem is that he is very slow on
installs and the primary job he was hired to do.
I spent quite a bit of time with him last week trying to figure out where
the speed issues were coming from. So I took him on site surveys ahead of time
with me and we laid out the entire installs during the survey. Install here,
wire down here, across here in through wall here and terminate. You could see
the tower from these sites so hanging and tuning the radio was a breeze.
I sent him out on two installs the day after that. First one I considered
a hard install. The second one easy. They took him over 10 hours not counting
drive time.
I spent the next morning doing site checks on them with the customers
permission. Both customers were happy with him and his install and not a single
thing on the install was done incorrectly I took another installer with me and
asked him to run the time frame in his head. He came up to 3 hours for each
install. So had I but we are both experienced.
So I talked really briefly with the new guy about getting faster and then
took him to an install I had surveyed myself. Ran him through the entire
install. Radio here, wire down here….. in and terminate. Install router. I left
the more experienced guy with him to answer questions but told him to not
physically help and explained to the new guy that if he had questions to ask
because the other guy is there to help him figure out a faster process and
would be talking with me after the install about ways to speed up the process
so we can help him. I should mention the experienced guy is a supervisor so no
hard feelings should be had here. I left him at 9:00
I was thinking that maybe I was being unrealistic in my time frames on
installs since normally I have a helper on my installs and we knock out three
to four a day. I felt like I got my installs done in 3 hours max when I was
alone but never really timed them. So when I left the new guy I drove a half
hour to what I considered a hard install and did it alone. Was done at 12:30
and driving back to check on the new guy. When I got there he was just about
done with the install but the truck was spread around the driveway ( not
throwing stones I have been known to do this). So he was going past hour 4 at
this point with paperwork and packing the truck he was going to be at 5 for
sure. I stepped in did the paperwork and quietly asked the other guy to pack
up the truck some. This was done for selfish reasons ( its Friday and I have a
family) and also because we had a between 1 and 3 to hit for the final install
of the day.
Grabbed subway. Scoffed it down. I bought and we headed to the last job.
I had the supervisor guy in my truck and we have worked together a lot
100s of installs together. So on the way to the install which he had never seen
I prep him on it. Big ladder ( 32”) up on the gable on the back of the house.
Take the little giant around to the deck so I can access the roof. And it’s a
tripod install. So when we pull into the drive I point to the back of the house
“that’s the back” he says okay and I go to ring the doorbell and say hello. He
has the new guy with him so he told him to help with the ladder and then
instructed him to start an rj45 on a wire. When I walked out the ladder was up
and the supervisor was at the top screwing down the tripod. I grabbed the mast,
mounted the antenna and put the wireless unit on it to tune and scurried up the
small ladder and up the roof. Ill make this short. We hung the gear and tuned
and marked the tripod and I went down and he had just finished the RJ45. In
his defense he had put one on a 3 foot scrap piece that he had confused with
the rest of the wire in the box( I don’t know) so this was his second end.
Anyway we just ran the job and he stayed out of the way. This was a hard roof,
tall and not LOS and we were done in the truck heading home in just under two
hours. But that was two guys and we ran.
Ok so this is getting long sorry about that but I just am at a loss with
this guy. I did realize on that last job I run on job sites. I always run to
the truck back from the truck and I think ahead. This guy defiantly does not
run and nothing is done with any sense of urgency. He is certainly smart and I
hate to let him go because he has other values but I don’t know what I can do
to help him. He was hired to take the load off of me and I realize at the
beginning new guys are work but its been over two months now he just recently
took on jobs alone and he is not taking the load off. He is adding to it.
Thoughts?
Is to wrong to say, your slow I don’t know why but I am going to fire you
if you don’t get fast. I wish I could tell you how to get fast but Its lots of
little things. Start with running everywhere you go and see if that helps?
Seriously…. I do want to know from those of you that have hired lots of
guys what are your thoughts? Should I not be running one man crews with the
expectation of two installs in an 8 hour day with an hour of drive time in
there?
Thanks,
Brandon
