I'm in the anti-run crowd. Thinking ahead is much more effective. I
would try being his helper. Don't do anything unless he tells you
to. You can prompt him, i.e ask him what he needs you to do. Take
all day if you need to but make him think through the install.
On Mon, Apr 24, 2017 at 11:11 AM, Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com
<mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>> wrote:
I never suggested not being safe.
Here is a fragment of the post that started this thread:
“This was a hard roof, tall and not LOS and we were done in
the truck heading home in just under two hours. But that was
two guys and we ran.
Ok so this is getting long sorry about that but I just am at a
loss with this guy. I did realize on that last job I run on
job sites. I always run to the truck back from the truck and I
think ahead. This guy defiantly does not run and nothing is
done with any sense of urgency. “
So who are you being the advocate for in this situation? Me, I am
100% on the side of the employer here.
Sounds like some of you are on the side of telling the employer to
fuck off.
The point being argued is not safety, not being abusive, it is not
even running. It is a slow employee with no sense of urgency.
How can anyone defend that?
*From:* Josh Reynolds
*Sent:* Monday, April 24, 2017 9:04 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process.
Am soldier, no longer enlisted.
No one is dying by not having internet, but they could die in a
ladder accident or cordless drill accident or by sliding on ice
and bashing their head by trying to rush on the job site.
Once you get shot at and blown up a few times in a third world
shit hole, it really puts things into perspective.
Your install numbers are not worth a life. If they are, well,
that's your call and you get to live with that for better or worse.
- Josh
On Apr 24, 2017 9:46 AM, "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:
Can you imagine telling your employer to fuck off (when asked
to hustle) in the following jobs?
Soldier
Life Guard
Fireman
EMT
Cop
Airline baggage loader, unloader
Airline fuel line operator
Personal Trainer
Flat Rate Roofer
Athlete
ER Nurse
Fast Food worker during lunch
Package sorter/truck loader UPS (I had this job once)
Ranch hand staking hay.
Subway sandwich maker during lunch.
Meat cutter.
I could be here all day listing jobs that require you to
jog/hustle/run.
I do not think it is in any way unreasonable to ask an
installer to have some spring in their step.
*From:* Chuck McCown
*Sent:* Monday, April 24, 2017 8:31 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process.
Not saying to rush for the sake of rushing, saying to go
fast. Do things perfectly in the least amount of time
possible. That means hustle. Why would you chose to slowly
drag your ass between the truck and the house? There is
absolutely no justification for not jogging back and forth.
Not saying to sprint or full on run. Just jog, show some
hustle. Economy of movements. That includes tool and supply
organization.
At the end of the day it is now many perfect installs you do a
day. If you get more than the other guy and you drag your
ass, I would not can you, probably give you a raise.
But if you were dragging your ass, leaving the shop late,
BSing instead of working I would tell you to ‘hustle” one time...
*From:* Josh Reynolds
*Sent:* Monday, April 24, 2017 8:24 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process.
To tell the truth, I'd be telling you to fuck off as well.
Having an employee run is a liability for several reasons.
Rushing leads to forgotten things and shoddy work, and tying
installs to pay with cause you to end up with the install
quality that DirecTV subcontractors do, as they get paid per
room/job as well. It's absolutely shit work that looks bad and
often has problems you will have to roll a truck for.
Slow and smooth, measured work, thought out in advance with no
wasted efficiency. THAT will be fast and quality work.
"Slow is smooth, smooth is fast."
In the end, it's your business. I'm just some guy.
- Josh
On Apr 24, 2017 8:57 AM, "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:
Well then you would not be working for me. Or UPS or FedEX
or Les Schwab or Tunex or ......
Treating someone like crap is a far different thing than
treating them like an adult. You own their work output
when they are on the clock and they need to work efficiently.
It is not unreasonable at all to expect some hustle. I
don’t pay anyone to take their time.
*From:* Timothy Steele
*Sent:* Monday, April 24, 2017 7:53 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process.
If you treat your employees like crap like that there
going to start looking for a new boss I know if I was
walking to the house and you told me to run I would quit
on the spot if that's what you want then go for it
On Mon, Apr 24, 2017, 9:43 AM Chuck McCown
<ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:
You cannot expect a younger person to run for any
reason until they decide that it might benefit them,
and even them real hustle will be rare.
I would put them on piece rate or daily rate and tell
them they have to do at least 3 per day to keep their
job. Once they are doing 3, then up it to 4 or keep
them on piece rate.
Have you actually said “RUN!” when they were walking
from truck to house? Have them watch the first half
of full metal jacket and give them a bit of drill
sergeant treatment.
I believe in “management by telling” you actually have
to tell them, in simple and clear terms exactly what
you want.
*From:* Brandon Yuchasz
*Sent:* Sunday, April 23, 2017 5:37 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* [AFMUG] installer hire / training process.
I was going to type a long PC type post about this
(which I did anyway sorry) . But instead I am going to
just ask how you guys go about trying to teach / train
a new installer to work faster?
We have a guy right now that was hired to be an
installer with other duties as assigned. He is good at
the other duties and has a good understanding of
networking, computers and even RF. The problem is that
he is very slow on installs and the primary job he was
hired to do.
I spent quite a bit of time with him last week trying
to figure out where the speed issues were coming from.
So I took him on site surveys ahead of time with me
and we laid out the entire installs during the survey.
Install here, wire down here, across here in through
wall here and terminate. You could see the tower from
these sites so hanging and tuning the radio was a breeze.
I sent him out on two installs the day after that.
First one I considered a hard install. The second one
easy. They took him over 10 hours not counting drive
time.
I spent the next morning doing site checks on them
with the customers permission. Both customers were
happy with him and his install and not a single thing
on the install was done incorrectly I took another
installer with me and asked him to run the time frame
in his head. He came up to 3 hours for each install.
So had I but we are both experienced.
So I talked really briefly with the new guy about
getting faster and then took him to an install I had
surveyed myself. Ran him through the entire install.
Radio here, wire down here….. in and terminate.
Install router. I left the more experienced guy with
him to answer questions but told him to not physically
help and explained to the new guy that if he had
questions to ask because the other guy is there to
help him figure out a faster process and would be
talking with me after the install about ways to speed
up the process so we can help him. I should mention
the experienced guy is a supervisor so no hard
feelings should be had here. I left him at 9:00
I was thinking that maybe I was being unrealistic in
my time frames on installs since normally I have a
helper on my installs and we knock out three to four a
day. I felt like I got my installs done in 3 hours max
when I was alone but never really timed them. So when
I left the new guy I drove a half hour to what I
considered a hard install and did it alone. Was done
at 12:30 and driving back to check on the new guy.
When I got there he was just about done with the
install but the truck was spread around the driveway (
not throwing stones I have been known to do this). So
he was going past hour 4 at this point with paperwork
and packing the truck he was going to be at 5 for
sure. I stepped in did the paperwork and quietly
asked the other guy to pack up the truck some. This
was done for selfish reasons ( its Friday and I have a
family) and also because we had a between 1 and 3 to
hit for the final install of the day.
Grabbed subway. Scoffed it down. I bought and we
headed to the last job.
I had the supervisor guy in my truck and we have
worked together a lot 100s of installs together. So on
the way to the install which he had never seen I prep
him on it. Big ladder ( 32”) up on the gable on the
back of the house. Take the little giant around to the
deck so I can access the roof. And it’s a tripod
install. So when we pull into the drive I point to the
back of the house “that’s the back” he says okay and I
go to ring the doorbell and say hello. He has the new
guy with him so he told him to help with the ladder
and then instructed him to start an rj45 on a wire.
When I walked out the ladder was up and the supervisor
was at the top screwing down the tripod. I grabbed the
mast, mounted the antenna and put the wireless unit on
it to tune and scurried up the small ladder and up the
roof. Ill make this short. We hung the gear and tuned
and marked the tripod and I went down and he had just
finished the RJ45. In his defense he had put one on
a 3 foot scrap piece that he had confused with the
rest of the wire in the box( I don’t know) so this
was his second end. Anyway we just ran the job and he
stayed out of the way. This was a hard roof, tall and
not LOS and we were done in the truck heading home in
just under two hours. But that was two guys and we ran.
Ok so this is getting long sorry about that but I just
am at a loss with this guy. I did realize on that last
job I run on job sites. I always run to the truck back
from the truck and I think ahead. This guy defiantly
does not run and nothing is done with any sense of
urgency. He is certainly smart and I hate to let him
go because he has other values but I don’t know what I
can do to help him. He was hired to take the load off
of me and I realize at the beginning new guys are work
but its been over two months now he just recently took
on jobs alone and he is not taking the load off. He is
adding to it.
Thoughts?
Is to wrong to say, your slow I don’t know why but I
am going to fire you if you don’t get fast. I wish I
could tell you how to get fast but Its lots of little
things. Start with running everywhere you go and see
if that helps?
Seriously…. I do want to know from those of you that
have hired lots of guys what are your thoughts? Should
I not be running one man crews with the expectation of
two installs in an 8 hour day with an hour of drive
time in there?
Thanks,
Brandon
--
Carl Peterson
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