I don't care whether or not they run, but as long as they aren't wasting time. There's a big difference between the guy that walks as slow as he can just so that he can get out of doing some work back at the office, or get some over time and the guy that's working out the best way to run the cable, or calling the office to find out if there are any service calls we need him to do while he's walking back to the truck.
What it really comes down to, is whether or not an employee cares about what kind of work they do, or if they just want to do everything in the easiest possible way and don't really care if what it looks like or how long it takes. On Mon, Apr 24, 2017 at 10:24 AM, Carl Peterson <cpeter...@portnetworks.com> wrote: > I'm in the anti-run crowd. Thinking ahead is much more effective. I > would try being his helper. Don't do anything unless he tells you to. You > can prompt him, i.e ask him what he needs you to do. Take all day if you > need to but make him think through the install. > > On Mon, Apr 24, 2017 at 11:11 AM, Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote: > >> I never suggested not being safe. >> >> Here is a fragment of the post that started this thread: >> >> “This was a hard roof, tall and not LOS and we were done in the truck >> heading home in just under two hours. But that was two guys and we ran. >> >> >> >> Ok so this is getting long sorry about that but I just am at a loss with >> this guy. I did realize on that last job I run on job sites. I always run >> to the truck back from the truck and I think ahead. This guy defiantly does >> not run and nothing is done with any sense of urgency. “ >> >> So who are you being the advocate for in this situation? Me, I am 100% >> on the side of the employer here. >> Sounds like some of you are on the side of telling the employer to fuck >> off. >> >> The point being argued is not safety, not being abusive, it is not even >> running. It is a slow employee with no sense of urgency. How can anyone >> defend that? >> >> >> *From:* Josh Reynolds >> *Sent:* Monday, April 24, 2017 9:04 AM >> *To:* af@afmug.com >> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process. >> >> Am soldier, no longer enlisted. >> >> No one is dying by not having internet, but they could die in a ladder >> accident or cordless drill accident or by sliding on ice and bashing their >> head by trying to rush on the job site. >> >> Once you get shot at and blown up a few times in a third world shit hole, >> it really puts things into perspective. >> >> Your install numbers are not worth a life. If they are, well, that's your >> call and you get to live with that for better or worse. >> >> - Josh >> >> On Apr 24, 2017 9:46 AM, "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote: >> >>> Can you imagine telling your employer to fuck off (when asked to hustle) >>> in the following jobs? >>> Soldier >>> Life Guard >>> Fireman >>> EMT >>> Cop >>> Airline baggage loader, unloader >>> Airline fuel line operator >>> Personal Trainer >>> Flat Rate Roofer >>> Athlete >>> ER Nurse >>> Fast Food worker during lunch >>> Package sorter/truck loader UPS (I had this job once) >>> Ranch hand staking hay. >>> Subway sandwich maker during lunch. >>> Meat cutter. >>> >>> I could be here all day listing jobs that require you to >>> jog/hustle/run. >>> >>> I do not think it is in any way unreasonable to ask an installer to have >>> some spring in their step. >>> >>> *From:* Chuck McCown >>> *Sent:* Monday, April 24, 2017 8:31 AM >>> *To:* af@afmug.com >>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process. >>> >>> Not saying to rush for the sake of rushing, saying to go fast. Do >>> things perfectly in the least amount of time possible. That means hustle. >>> Why would you chose to slowly drag your ass between the truck and the >>> house? There is absolutely no justification for not jogging back and >>> forth. Not saying to sprint or full on run. Just jog, show some hustle. >>> Economy of movements. That includes tool and supply organization. >>> >>> At the end of the day it is now many perfect installs you do a day. If >>> you get more than the other guy and you drag your ass, I would not can you, >>> probably give you a raise. >>> >>> But if you were dragging your ass, leaving the shop late, BSing instead >>> of working I would tell you to ‘hustle” one time... >>> >>> *From:* Josh Reynolds >>> *Sent:* Monday, April 24, 2017 8:24 AM >>> *To:* af@afmug.com >>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process. >>> >>> To tell the truth, I'd be telling you to fuck off as well. >>> >>> Having an employee run is a liability for several reasons. Rushing leads >>> to forgotten things and shoddy work, and tying installs to pay with cause >>> you to end up with the install quality that DirecTV subcontractors do, as >>> they get paid per room/job as well. It's absolutely shit work that looks >>> bad and often has problems you will have to roll a truck for. >>> >>> Slow and smooth, measured work, thought out in advance with no wasted >>> efficiency. THAT will be fast and quality work. >>> >>> "Slow is smooth, smooth is fast." >>> >>> In the end, it's your business. I'm just some guy. >>> >>> - Josh >>> >>> On Apr 24, 2017 8:57 AM, "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote: >>> >>> Well then you would not be working for me. Or UPS or FedEX or Les >>> Schwab or Tunex or ...... >>> >>> Treating someone like crap is a far different thing than treating them >>> like an adult. You own their work output when they are on the clock and >>> they need to work efficiently. >>> >>> It is not unreasonable at all to expect some hustle. I don’t pay anyone >>> to take their time. >>> >>> *From:* Timothy Steele >>> *Sent:* Monday, April 24, 2017 7:53 AM >>> *To:* af@afmug.com >>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process. >>> >>> >>> If you treat your employees like crap like that there going to start >>> looking for a new boss I know if I was walking to the house and you told me >>> to run I would quit on the spot if that's what you want then go for it >>> >>> On Mon, Apr 24, 2017, 9:43 AM Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote: >>> >>>> You cannot expect a younger person to run for any reason until they >>>> decide that it might benefit them, and even them real hustle will be rare. >>>> >>>> I would put them on piece rate or daily rate and tell them they have to >>>> do at least 3 per day to keep their job. Once they are doing 3, then up it >>>> to 4 or keep them on piece rate. >>>> >>>> Have you actually said “RUN!” when they were walking from truck to >>>> house? Have them watch the first half of full metal jacket and give them a >>>> bit of drill sergeant treatment. >>>> >>>> I believe in “management by telling” you actually have to tell them, >>>> in simple and clear terms exactly what you want. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> *From:* Brandon Yuchasz >>>> *Sent:* Sunday, April 23, 2017 5:37 PM >>>> *To:* af@afmug.com >>>> *Subject:* [AFMUG] installer hire / training process. >>>> >>>> I was going to type a long PC type post about this (which I did anyway >>>> sorry) . But instead I am going to just ask how you guys go about trying to >>>> teach / train a new installer to work faster? >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> We have a guy right now that was hired to be an installer with other >>>> duties as assigned. He is good at the other duties and has a good >>>> understanding of networking, computers and even RF. The problem is that he >>>> is very slow on installs and the primary job he was hired to do. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> I spent quite a bit of time with him last week trying to figure out >>>> where the speed issues were coming from. So I took him on site surveys >>>> ahead of time with me and we laid out the entire installs during the >>>> survey. Install here, wire down here, across here in through wall here and >>>> terminate. You could see the tower from these sites so hanging and tuning >>>> the radio was a breeze. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> I sent him out on two installs the day after that. First one I >>>> considered a hard install. The second one easy. They took him over 10 >>>> hours not counting drive time. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> I spent the next morning doing site checks on them with the customers >>>> permission. Both customers were happy with him and his install and not a >>>> single thing on the install was done incorrectly I took another installer >>>> with me and asked him to run the time frame in his head. He came up to 3 >>>> hours for each install. So had I but we are both experienced. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> So I talked really briefly with the new guy about getting faster and >>>> then took him to an install I had surveyed myself. Ran him through the >>>> entire install. Radio here, wire down here….. in and terminate. Install >>>> router. I left the more experienced guy with him to answer questions but >>>> told him to not physically help and explained to the new guy that if he had >>>> questions to ask because the other guy is there to help him figure out a >>>> faster process and would be talking with me after the install about ways >>>> to speed up the process so we can help him. I should mention the >>>> experienced guy is a supervisor so no hard feelings should be had here. I >>>> left him at 9:00 >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> I was thinking that maybe I was being unrealistic in my time frames on >>>> installs since normally I have a helper on my installs and we knock out >>>> three to four a day. I felt like I got my installs done in 3 hours max when >>>> I was alone but never really timed them. So when I left the new guy I drove >>>> a half hour to what I considered a hard install and did it alone. Was done >>>> at 12:30 and driving back to check on the new guy. When I got there he was >>>> just about done with the install but the truck was spread around the >>>> driveway ( not throwing stones I have been known to do this). So he was >>>> going past hour 4 at this point with paperwork and packing the truck he was >>>> going to be at 5 for sure. I stepped in did the paperwork and quietly >>>> asked the other guy to pack up the truck some. This was done for selfish >>>> reasons ( its Friday and I have a family) and also because we had a >>>> between 1 and 3 to hit for the final install of the day. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Grabbed subway. Scoffed it down. I bought and we headed to the last job. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> I had the supervisor guy in my truck and we have worked together a lot >>>> 100s of installs together. So on the way to the install which he had never >>>> seen I prep him on it. Big ladder ( 32”) up on the gable on the back of the >>>> house. Take the little giant around to the deck so I can access the roof. >>>> And it’s a tripod install. So when we pull into the drive I point to the >>>> back of the house “that’s the back” he says okay and I go to ring the >>>> doorbell and say hello. He has the new guy with him so he told him to help >>>> with the ladder and then instructed him to start an rj45 on a wire. When I >>>> walked out the ladder was up and the supervisor was at the top screwing >>>> down the tripod. I grabbed the mast, mounted the antenna and put the >>>> wireless unit on it to tune and scurried up the small ladder and up the >>>> roof. Ill make this short. We hung the gear and tuned and marked the tripod >>>> and I went down and he had just finished the RJ45. In his defense he had >>>> put one on a 3 foot scrap piece that he had confused with the rest of the >>>> wire in the box( I don’t know) so this was his second end. Anyway we just >>>> ran the job and he stayed out of the way. This was a hard roof, tall and >>>> not LOS and we were done in the truck heading home in just under two hours. >>>> But that was two guys and we ran. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Ok so this is getting long sorry about that but I just am at a loss >>>> with this guy. I did realize on that last job I run on job sites. I always >>>> run to the truck back from the truck and I think ahead. This guy defiantly >>>> does not run and nothing is done with any sense of urgency. He is certainly >>>> smart and I hate to let him go because he has other values but I don’t know >>>> what I can do to help him. He was hired to take the load off of me and I >>>> realize at the beginning new guys are work but its been over two months now >>>> he just recently took on jobs alone and he is not taking the load off. He >>>> is adding to it. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Thoughts? >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Is to wrong to say, your slow I don’t know why but I am going to fire >>>> you if you don’t get fast. I wish I could tell you how to get fast but Its >>>> lots of little things. Start with running everywhere you go and see if that >>>> helps? >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Seriously…. I do want to know from those of you that have hired lots >>>> of guys what are your thoughts? Should I not be running one man crews with >>>> the expectation of two installs in an 8 hour day with an hour of drive time >>>> in there? >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> >>>> Brandon >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >> > > > -- > > Carl Peterson > > *PORT NETWORKS* > > 401 E Pratt St, Ste 2553 > > Baltimore, MD 21202 > > (410) 637-3707 >
