Agreed.
On Fri, Jun 23, 2017 at 7:21 PM, Mike Hammett <af...@ics-il.net
<mailto:af...@ics-il.net>> wrote:
I don't think blocking VPNs or SSL would be reasonable network
management. I don't think outright blocking any legal content would
be considered reasonable.
-----
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
<https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL><https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb><https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions><https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
<https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix><https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange><https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
<https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
<https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
*From: *"Sean Heskett" <af...@zirkel.us <mailto:af...@zirkel.us>>
*To: *af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
*Sent: *Friday, June 23, 2017 7:20:13 PM
*Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Ready for the Xbox one X and 100GB games?
I completely agree with you on all those points josh. It's a stupid
thing to do for many reasons, but being illegal is not one of those
reasons.
I'm not picking a fight, just trying to clear the air about the
legalities in regards to DPI rules to block or throttle a traffic
type (such as VPN/SSL). a lot of folks don't understand that
"reasonable network management" is protected by the FCC NN rules.
-sean
On Fri, Jun 23, 2017 at 5:33 PM, Josh Reynolds <j...@kyneticwifi.com
<mailto:j...@kyneticwifi.com>> wrote:
Listen, at the end of the day you're consider penalizing the
very people who make it possible for you to operate, when in
reality you should be trying to find ways to get the government
to stop handing out cruise ships full of money to companies to
continue doing the same old shit.
People do not want UBB. Cable COs have been doing it for years
to help stifle competition (online streaming) away from their
money maker (cable tv + ad revenue).
On Fri, Jun 23, 2017 at 6:21 PM, Josh Reynolds
<j...@kyneticwifi.com <mailto:j...@kyneticwifi.com>> wrote:
edit: s/can/can't/
On Fri, Jun 23, 2017 at 6:21 PM, Josh Reynolds
<j...@kyneticwifi.com <mailto:j...@kyneticwifi.com>> wrote:
Because you can discriminate based on traffic type
except in the case of reasonable network management.
Not to mention you will block every single telework user
in the process, along with many other types of content
riding on that tunnel.
I'll say this, I would not be the one to want to try an
explain "I block VPNs" to the FCC. You can have fun
with that all you want.
On Fri, Jun 23, 2017 at 6:17 PM, Sean Heskett
<af...@zirkel.us <mailto:af...@zirkel.us>> wrote:
All of that is very true Eric and I completely agree
with you. However, Josh said it was illegal and I
was pointing out that it is expressly legal to do
per the FCC NN rules. It's not smart or efficient
at fixing the problem but it is legal to do.
-Sean
On Fri, Jun 23, 2017 at 3:26 PM, Eric Kuhnke
<eric.kuh...@gmail.com
<mailto:eric.kuh...@gmail.com>> wrote:
you go right ahead and do DPI / deprioritize all
TLS type traffic, that is something I would
highly encourage any of my competitors to do...
Since a huge % of web traffic is https now,
netflix is https/tls1.2, youtube is
https/tls1.2, etc, all you would accomplish is
hurting everyone's throughput for all of the
most common websites and applications.
On Fri, Jun 23, 2017 at 11:27 AM, Sean Heskett
<af...@zirkel.us <mailto:af...@zirkel.us>> wrote:
how is it illegal? FCC says we can manage
our networks as needed.
On Fri, Jun 23, 2017 at 12:55 AM, Josh
Reynolds <j...@kyneticwifi.com
<mailto:j...@kyneticwifi.com>> wrote:
And illegal.
- Josh
On Jun 22, 2017 11:22 AM, "Mike Hammett"
<af...@ics-il.net
<mailto:af...@ics-il.net>> wrote:
We go from bad idea to worse?
-----
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
<http://www.ics-il.com/>
<https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL><https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb><https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions><https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
Midwest Internet Exchange
<http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
<https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix><https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange><https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
The Brothers WISP
<http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
<https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
<https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
*From: *"Kurt Fankhauser"
<lists.wavel...@gmail.com
<mailto:lists.wavel...@gmail.com>>
*To: *af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
*Sent: *Thursday, June 22, 2017
10:15:11 AM
*Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Ready for the
Xbox one X and 100GB games?
Can you block/throttle a VPN
connection with DPI? Make it so that
if the customer turns it on the VPN
their connection gets worse than
with it off?
On Wed, Jun 21, 2017 at 11:43 PM,
Jeremy <jeremysmi...@gmail.com
<mailto:jeremysmi...@gmail.com>> wrote:
On that point, we tell them that
it is not our responsibility to
track their specific usage. We
tell them that their are routers
like the Fortigate which can
track usage, but that we do not
support those devices. I tell
them that I think the new Torch
router does it too, but that we
have no experience with these
devices. "The only way that we
track which websites are visited
and what you are doing on the
Internet is with a warrant or an
order from the Department of
Justice". We stand behind our
usage tracking, and if they do
not want to pay the bill then
they can find another provider.
We have lost two or three
customers over four years who
refuse to pay, and it usually
isn't worth sending those ones
to collections. We just go and
collect our equipment and write
it off as bad debt.
On Wed, Jun 21, 2017 at 7:52 PM,
Adam Moffett
<dmmoff...@gmail.com
<mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com>> wrote:
That's an interesting point.
------ Original Message ------
From: "Stefan Englhardt"
<s...@genias.net
<mailto:s...@genias.net>>
To: af@afmug.com
<mailto:af@afmug.com>;
"Wireless Administrator"
<wirel...@htn.net
<mailto:wirel...@htn.net>>
Sent: 6/21/2017 3:18:07 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ready
for the Xbox one X and 100GB
games?
We fade out our usage
based plans. *Every*
single customer who had
to pay surplus makes us
a lot of work. Calls
from each single family
member, what IP is this.
Why cant you tell me
what x.y.z.w is. I dont
use Akamai ...
You have to take care
there is no angry
escalating dispute for a
view Euros. I am sure
this service times cost
us more money than the
customers had to pay
surplus. We have to do
flat pricing.
On Wed, 21 Jun 2017
18:59:41 +0000
"Wireless
Administrator"
<wirel...@htn.net
<mailto:wirel...@htn.net>>
wrote:
This industry is in
trouble. Nobody
wants usage based
billing. Customers
don’t want it for
obvious reasons.
ISP’s are afraid to
implement it for
fear of losing
customers. If you
lose money on an
account is it really
an asset to your
business? I feel
that the Large ISP’s
have already
implemented Usage
Based Rate
Adjustment. They
seem to have an
automated process to
adjust rates that
will force off the
heavy users. Our
industry will not
get respect until it
asks for it. UBB or
UBRA (New term I
coined) is the way ….
Steve
From: Af
[mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com
<mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com>]
On Behalf Of Mark -
Myakka Technologies
Sent: Wednesday,
June 21, 2017 2:07 PM
To: Simon Westlake
Subject: Re: [AFMUG]
Ready for the Xbox
one X and 100GB games?
Simon,
But metered billing
makes them think
about what they are
doing. Does the
baby need to be
falling asleep
watching a 4K
movie? The best way
I can put it is
renting an apartment
with utilities
included. If I'm
renting an apartment
in FL with electric
included, my AC is
going to be set at
68 24/7. The cat
will be very
comfortable all day,
why should I care.
However, if I'm
paying for electric,
the cat will have to
deal with 78 during
the day and I may
have to deal with 72
when I get home.
Bandwidth prices are
dropping for some,
but for others it is
still expensive.
Not to mention the
HW costs to upgrade
your network to
handle the higher
bandwidth internally.
4K tvs cost more to
buy than 1080 or
720 TV's. Why
should someone who
is willing to stream
at 720 or pay for
satellite TV, be
forced to pay the
same as that guy
that wants to watch
in 4K. Why should a
single person who
just needs
dependable fast
internet
occasionally be
force to pay the
same amount as the
family with 6 kids
and 30 devices? Why
should the kid
willing to buy his
game on a disc be
forced to pay the
same as the guy who
doesn't want to get
up off the couch to
change a disc?
Why is it we are the
only industry that
is expected to
deliver a top notch
fast and reliable
service at a single
low price. The
electric company
gets to charge per
KW, the all you can
eat buffet charges
per person, the cell
phone company
charges per device,
cable/satellite
charges per box,
hell even the
streaming companies
get to put limits on
the number of people
that can stream per
account. Why is it
when we ask a heavy
user to pay their
fair share all hell
breaks lose and we
are the greedy bastards?
-- Best regards,
Mark
<mailto:m...@mailmt.com
<mailto:m...@mailmt.com>>
mailto:m...@mailmt.com
<mailto:m...@mailmt.com>
Myakka Technologies,
Inc.
<http://www.MyakkaTech.com>
www.MyakkaTech.com
<http://www.MyakkaTech.com>
Proud Sponsor of the
Myakka City Relay
For Life
<http://www.RelayForLife.org/MyakkaCityFL
<http://www.RelayForLife.org/MyakkaCityFL>>
http://www.RelayForLife.org/MyakkaCityFL
<http://www.RelayForLife.org/MyakkaCityFL>
Please Donate at
Please Donate at
<http://www.myakkatech.com/RFL.html
<http://www.myakkatech.com/RFL.html>>
http://www.myakkatech.com/RFL.html
<http://www.myakkatech.com/RFL.html>
------
Wednesday, June 21,
2017, 1:11:27 PM,
you wrote:
The problem with
metered billing is
that it doesn't
solve the problem.
The customer still
purchased a game
they want to
download, or they
have a 4K TV they
want to watch movies
on. Most people are
just going to look
for other options if
they have to pay
every time they try
to use a device in
their household, and
even if people are
willing to pay, you
still have to be
able to deliver
enough service to
them to give them
the speeds they want.
Until there is more
spectrum available,
I think DPI is a
much better
solution.. you can
deprioritize and
shape things like
game downloads, and
prioritize/shape
their video
streaming. I wish
there was a better
option, but I really
don't think
implementing UBB is
a solution to this
problem. It may give
you more money to
build up your
network a bit, but
it is poison to most
customer's ears, and
it won't change
their behavior that
much unless it's
extremely painful
for them financially.
On 6/21/2017 10:51
AM, Steve Jones wrote:
metered billing..
wave of the future
On Wed, Jun 21, 2017
at 9:46 AM, Adam
Moffett <
<mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com
<mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com>>
dmmoff...@gmail.com
<mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com>>
wrote:
I read some scary
stuff the other day
along a similar vein.
Basically if you're
selling 25mbps then
you'll need a 4:1
oversubscription
ratio to support
peak hours hi def
streaming without
complaint.
As adoption of 4K
video increases,
that ratio will
approach 1:1.
You'll have to
either start
supplying 100meg, or
start billing for
consumption....or
jack the price way up.
They were looking
only at streaming
video trends, and
didn't even consider
stuff like this.
------ Original
Message ------
From: "Jeremy" <
<mailto:jeremysmi...@gmail.com
<mailto:jeremysmi...@gmail.com>>
jeremysmi...@gmail.com
<mailto:jeremysmi...@gmail.com>>
To:
<mailto:af@afmug.com
<mailto:af@afmug.com>>
af@afmug.com
<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Sent: 6/21/2017
1:03:09 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG]
Ready for the Xbox
one X and 100GB games?
Yeah, this sucks for
us. Even worse,
many of these games
come out with dual
licenses so that you
can play on Windows
10 or XB1 for the
same purchase. I
bought a couple
games and checked it
out. It was amazing
to be able to just
continue my Halo
Wars right where I
left off on my
laptop, but it was
double the download
size. This makes
Forza potentially
200GB, without DLC.
When you are
providing customers
300-500GB per month
without overages it
makes heavy Xbox
customers very
quickly switch
providers. I'm not
sure if that is a
blessing or a
curse. For now, it
has not been a
gigantic churn issue
for us, but the
future of 4K content
will likely hit us
all pretty hard.
My main issue with
this is that
purchasing a disc is
not an option. I
initially bought
discs, only to find
that even after
ripping them to the
hard drive, I have
to walk down to the
network closet to
insert the disc.
Digitally purchased
games can just be
loaded from a menu,
like all of the
hacked consoles.
There is no option
to 'upgrade' to a
digital license if
you have purchased a
disc. Also, if you
own multiple Xbox
One consoles (say at
home and at work),
you can play any of
your games on either
console, at any
time, just not
simultaneously.
Discs are now
useless to me. The
only way to get this
digital license is
to download it from
the Internet (or
hack the
console...not yet an
option). This has
been a big bummer to
heavy Xbox users
when they get hit
with massive
overages, and they
usually switch to
Comcast.
On Tue, Jun 20, 2017
at 10:19 PM, Eric
Kuhnke <
<mailto:eric.kuh...@gmail.com
<mailto:eric.kuh...@gmail.com>>
eric.kuh...@gmail.com
<mailto:eric.kuh...@gmail.com>>
wrote:
This will be the new
normal with the next
generation Xbox,
when many customers
start bringing them
home...
<https://m.hardocp.com/news/2017/06/18/forza_motorsport_7_will_be_100gb_download
<https://m.hardocp.com/news/2017/06/18/forza_motorsport_7_will_be_100gb_download>>
https://m.hardocp.com/news/2017/06/18/forza_motorsport_7_will_be_100gb_download
<https://m.hardocp.com/news/2017/06/18/forza_motorsport_7_will_be_100gb_download>
-- Simon Westlake
Email:
<mailto:simon@sonar.software
<mailto:simon@sonar.software>>
simon@sonar.software
Phone: (702)
447-1247
<tel:%28702%29%20447-1247>
US / (780) 900-1180
<tel:%28780%29%20900-1180>
CA
---------------------------
Sonar Software Inc
The future of ISP
billing and OSS
<https://sonar.software>
https://sonar.software
