All of that is very true Eric and I completely agree with you. However, Josh said it was illegal and I was pointing out that it is expressly legal to do per the FCC NN rules. It's not smart or efficient at fixing the problem but it is legal to do.
-Sean On Fri, Jun 23, 2017 at 3:26 PM, Eric Kuhnke <eric.kuh...@gmail.com> wrote: > you go right ahead and do DPI / deprioritize all TLS type traffic, that is > something I would highly encourage any of my competitors to do... Since a > huge % of web traffic is https now, netflix is https/tls1.2, youtube is > https/tls1.2, etc, all you would accomplish is hurting everyone's > throughput for all of the most common websites and applications. > > On Fri, Jun 23, 2017 at 11:27 AM, Sean Heskett <af...@zirkel.us> wrote: > >> how is it illegal? FCC says we can manage our networks as needed. >> >> On Fri, Jun 23, 2017 at 12:55 AM, Josh Reynolds <j...@kyneticwifi.com> >> wrote: >> >>> And illegal. >>> >>> - Josh >>> >>> On Jun 22, 2017 11:22 AM, "Mike Hammett" <af...@ics-il.net> wrote: >>> >>>> We go from bad idea to worse? >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ----- >>>> Mike Hammett >>>> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/> >>>> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL> >>>> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb> >>>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions> >>>> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL> >>>> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/> >>>> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix> >>>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange> >>>> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix> >>>> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/> >>>> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp> >>>> >>>> >>>> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg> >>>> ------------------------------ >>>> *From: *"Kurt Fankhauser" <lists.wavel...@gmail.com> >>>> *To: *af@afmug.com >>>> *Sent: *Thursday, June 22, 2017 10:15:11 AM >>>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Ready for the Xbox one X and 100GB games? >>>> >>>> Can you block/throttle a VPN connection with DPI? Make it so that if >>>> the customer turns it on the VPN their connection gets worse than with it >>>> off? >>>> >>>> On Wed, Jun 21, 2017 at 11:43 PM, Jeremy <jeremysmi...@gmail.com> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> On that point, we tell them that it is not our responsibility to track >>>>> their specific usage. We tell them that their are routers like the >>>>> Fortigate which can track usage, but that we do not support those devices. >>>>> I tell them that I think the new Torch router does it too, but that we >>>>> have >>>>> no experience with these devices. "The only way that we track which >>>>> websites are visited and what you are doing on the Internet is with a >>>>> warrant or an order from the Department of Justice". We stand behind our >>>>> usage tracking, and if they do not want to pay the bill then they can find >>>>> another provider. We have lost two or three customers over four years who >>>>> refuse to pay, and it usually isn't worth sending those ones to >>>>> collections. We just go and collect our equipment and write it off as bad >>>>> debt. >>>>> >>>>> On Wed, Jun 21, 2017 at 7:52 PM, Adam Moffett <dmmoff...@gmail.com> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> That's an interesting point. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> ------ Original Message ------ >>>>>> From: "Stefan Englhardt" <s...@genias.net> >>>>>> To: af@afmug.com; "Wireless Administrator" <wirel...@htn.net> >>>>>> Sent: 6/21/2017 3:18:07 PM >>>>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ready for the Xbox one X and 100GB games? >>>>>> >>>>>> We fade out our usage based plans. *Every* single customer who had to >>>>>>> pay surplus makes us a lot of work. Calls from each single family >>>>>>> member, >>>>>>> what IP is this. Why cant you tell me what x.y.z.w is. I dont use >>>>>>> Akamai ... >>>>>>> You have to take care there is no angry escalating dispute for a >>>>>>> view Euros. I am sure this service times cost us more money than the >>>>>>> customers had to pay surplus. We have to do flat pricing. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Wed, 21 Jun 2017 18:59:41 +0000 >>>>>>> "Wireless Administrator" <wirel...@htn.net> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> This industry is in trouble. Nobody wants usage based billing. >>>>>>>> Customers don’t want it for obvious reasons. ISP’s are afraid to >>>>>>>> implement >>>>>>>> it for fear of losing customers. If you lose money on an account is it >>>>>>>> really an asset to your business? I feel that the Large ISP’s have >>>>>>>> already >>>>>>>> implemented Usage Based Rate Adjustment. They seem to have an automated >>>>>>>> process to adjust rates that will force off the heavy users. Our >>>>>>>> industry >>>>>>>> will not get respect until it asks for it. UBB or UBRA (New term I >>>>>>>> coined) >>>>>>>> is the way …. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Steve >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Mark - Myakka >>>>>>>> Technologies >>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, June 21, 2017 2:07 PM >>>>>>>> To: Simon Westlake >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ready for the Xbox one X and 100GB games? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Simon, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> But metered billing makes them think about what they are doing. >>>>>>>> Does the baby need to be falling asleep watching a 4K movie? The best >>>>>>>> way >>>>>>>> I can put it is renting an apartment with utilities included. If I'm >>>>>>>> renting an apartment in FL with electric included, my AC is going to >>>>>>>> be set >>>>>>>> at 68 24/7. The cat will be very comfortable all day, why should I >>>>>>>> care. >>>>>>>> However, if I'm paying for electric, the cat will have to deal with 78 >>>>>>>> during the day and I may have to deal with 72 when I get home. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Bandwidth prices are dropping for some, but for others it is still >>>>>>>> expensive. Not to mention the HW costs to upgrade your network to >>>>>>>> handle >>>>>>>> the higher bandwidth internally. >>>>>>>> 4K tvs cost more to buy than 1080 or 720 TV's. Why should someone >>>>>>>> who is willing to stream at 720 or pay for satellite TV, be forced to >>>>>>>> pay >>>>>>>> the same as that guy that wants to watch in 4K. Why should a single >>>>>>>> person >>>>>>>> who just needs dependable fast internet occasionally be force to pay >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> same amount as the family with 6 kids and 30 devices? Why should the >>>>>>>> kid >>>>>>>> willing to buy his game on a disc be forced to pay the same as the guy >>>>>>>> who >>>>>>>> doesn't want to get up off the couch to change a disc? >>>>>>>> Why is it we are the only industry that is expected to deliver a >>>>>>>> top notch fast and reliable service at a single low price. The >>>>>>>> electric >>>>>>>> company gets to charge per KW, the all you can eat buffet charges per >>>>>>>> person, the cell phone company charges per device, cable/satellite >>>>>>>> charges >>>>>>>> per box, hell even the streaming companies get to put limits on the >>>>>>>> number >>>>>>>> of people that can stream per account. Why is it when we ask a heavy >>>>>>>> user >>>>>>>> to pay their fair share all hell breaks lose and we are the greedy >>>>>>>> bastards? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- Best regards, >>>>>>>> Mark <mailto:m...@mailmt.com> mailto: >>>>>>>> m...@mailmt.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Myakka Technologies, Inc. >>>>>>>> <http://www.MyakkaTech.com> www.MyakkaTech.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Proud Sponsor of the Myakka City Relay For Life >>>>>>>> <http://www.RelayForLife.org/MyakkaCityFL> >>>>>>>> http://www.RelayForLife.org/MyakkaCityFL >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Please Donate at Please Donate at <http://www.myakkatech.com/RFL >>>>>>>> .html> http://www.myakkatech.com/RFL.html >>>>>>>> ------ >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Wednesday, June 21, 2017, 1:11:27 PM, you wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The problem with metered billing is that it doesn't solve the >>>>>>>> problem. The customer still purchased a game they want to download, or >>>>>>>> they >>>>>>>> have a 4K TV they want to watch movies on. Most people are just going >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> look for other options if they have to pay every time they try to use a >>>>>>>> device in their household, and even if people are willing to pay, you >>>>>>>> still >>>>>>>> have to be able to deliver enough service to them to give them the >>>>>>>> speeds >>>>>>>> they want. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Until there is more spectrum available, I think DPI is a much >>>>>>>> better solution.. you can deprioritize and shape things like game >>>>>>>> downloads, and prioritize/shape their video streaming. I wish there >>>>>>>> was a >>>>>>>> better option, but I really don't think implementing UBB is a solution >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> this problem. It may give you more money to build up your network a >>>>>>>> bit, >>>>>>>> but it is poison to most customer's ears, and it won't change their >>>>>>>> behavior that much unless it's extremely painful for them financially. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 6/21/2017 10:51 AM, Steve Jones wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> metered billing.. wave of the future >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Wed, Jun 21, 2017 at 9:46 AM, Adam Moffett < <mailto: >>>>>>>> dmmoff...@gmail.com> dmmoff...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I read some scary stuff the other day along a similar vein. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Basically if you're selling 25mbps then you'll need a 4:1 >>>>>>>> oversubscription ratio to support peak hours hi def streaming without >>>>>>>> complaint. >>>>>>>> As adoption of 4K video increases, that ratio will approach 1:1. >>>>>>>> You'll have to either start supplying 100meg, or start billing for >>>>>>>> consumption....or jack the price way up. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> They were looking only at streaming video trends, and didn't even >>>>>>>> consider stuff like this. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> ------ Original Message ------ >>>>>>>> From: "Jeremy" < <mailto:jeremysmi...@gmail.com> >>>>>>>> jeremysmi...@gmail.com> >>>>>>>> To: <mailto:af@afmug.com> af@afmug.com >>>>>>>> Sent: 6/21/2017 1:03:09 AM >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ready for the Xbox one X and 100GB games? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Yeah, this sucks for us. Even worse, many of these games come out >>>>>>>> with dual licenses so that you can play on Windows 10 or XB1 for the >>>>>>>> same >>>>>>>> purchase. I bought a couple games and checked it out. It was amazing >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> be able to just continue my Halo Wars right where I left off on my >>>>>>>> laptop, >>>>>>>> but it was double the download size. This makes Forza potentially >>>>>>>> 200GB, >>>>>>>> without DLC. When you are providing customers 300-500GB per month >>>>>>>> without >>>>>>>> overages it makes heavy Xbox customers very quickly switch providers. >>>>>>>> I'm >>>>>>>> not sure if that is a blessing or a curse. For now, it has not been a >>>>>>>> gigantic churn issue for us, but the future of 4K content will likely >>>>>>>> hit >>>>>>>> us all pretty hard. >>>>>>>> My main issue with this is that purchasing a disc is not an >>>>>>>> option. I initially bought discs, only to find that even after ripping >>>>>>>> them to the hard drive, I have to walk down to the network closet to >>>>>>>> insert >>>>>>>> the disc. Digitally purchased games can just be loaded from a menu, >>>>>>>> like >>>>>>>> all of the hacked consoles. There is no option to 'upgrade' to a >>>>>>>> digital >>>>>>>> license if you have purchased a disc. Also, if you own multiple Xbox >>>>>>>> One >>>>>>>> consoles (say at home and at work), you can play any of your games on >>>>>>>> either console, at any time, just not simultaneously. Discs are now >>>>>>>> useless to me. The only way to get this digital license is to >>>>>>>> download it >>>>>>>> from the Internet (or hack the console...not yet an option). This has >>>>>>>> been >>>>>>>> a big bummer to heavy Xbox users when they get hit with massive >>>>>>>> overages, >>>>>>>> and they usually switch to Comcast. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 20, 2017 at 10:19 PM, Eric Kuhnke < <mailto: >>>>>>>> eric.kuh...@gmail.com> eric.kuh...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> This will be the new normal with the next generation Xbox, when >>>>>>>> many customers start bringing them home... >>>>>>>> <https://m.hardocp.com/news/2017/06/18/forza_motorsport_7_wi >>>>>>>> ll_be_100gb_download> https://m.hardocp.com/news/201 >>>>>>>> 7/06/18/forza_motorsport_7_will_be_100gb_download >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- Simon Westlake >>>>>>>> Email: <mailto:simon@sonar.software> simon@sonar.software >>>>>>>> Phone: (702) 447-1247 US / (780) 900-1180 CA >>>>>>>> --------------------------- >>>>>>>> Sonar Software Inc >>>>>>>> The future of ISP billing and OSS >>>>>>>> <https://sonar.software> https://sonar.software >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >> >
