edit: s/can/can't/ On Fri, Jun 23, 2017 at 6:21 PM, Josh Reynolds <j...@kyneticwifi.com> wrote:
> Because you can discriminate based on traffic type except in the case of > reasonable network management. Not to mention you will block every single > telework user in the process, along with many other types of content riding > on that tunnel. > > I'll say this, I would not be the one to want to try an explain "I block > VPNs" to the FCC. You can have fun with that all you want. > > On Fri, Jun 23, 2017 at 6:17 PM, Sean Heskett <af...@zirkel.us> wrote: > >> All of that is very true Eric and I completely agree with you. However, >> Josh said it was illegal and I was pointing out that it is expressly legal >> to do per the FCC NN rules. It's not smart or efficient at fixing the >> problem but it is legal to do. >> >> -Sean >> >> >> >> On Fri, Jun 23, 2017 at 3:26 PM, Eric Kuhnke <eric.kuh...@gmail.com> >> wrote: >> >>> you go right ahead and do DPI / deprioritize all TLS type traffic, that >>> is something I would highly encourage any of my competitors to do... Since >>> a huge % of web traffic is https now, netflix is https/tls1.2, youtube is >>> https/tls1.2, etc, all you would accomplish is hurting everyone's >>> throughput for all of the most common websites and applications. >>> >>> On Fri, Jun 23, 2017 at 11:27 AM, Sean Heskett <af...@zirkel.us> wrote: >>> >>>> how is it illegal? FCC says we can manage our networks as needed. >>>> >>>> On Fri, Jun 23, 2017 at 12:55 AM, Josh Reynolds <j...@kyneticwifi.com> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> And illegal. >>>>> >>>>> - Josh >>>>> >>>>> On Jun 22, 2017 11:22 AM, "Mike Hammett" <af...@ics-il.net> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> We go from bad idea to worse? >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> ----- >>>>>> Mike Hammett >>>>>> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/> >>>>>> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL> >>>>>> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb> >>>>>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions> >>>>>> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL> >>>>>> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/> >>>>>> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix> >>>>>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange> >>>>>> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix> >>>>>> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/> >>>>>> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg> >>>>>> ------------------------------ >>>>>> *From: *"Kurt Fankhauser" <lists.wavel...@gmail.com> >>>>>> *To: *af@afmug.com >>>>>> *Sent: *Thursday, June 22, 2017 10:15:11 AM >>>>>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Ready for the Xbox one X and 100GB games? >>>>>> >>>>>> Can you block/throttle a VPN connection with DPI? Make it so that if >>>>>> the customer turns it on the VPN their connection gets worse than with it >>>>>> off? >>>>>> >>>>>> On Wed, Jun 21, 2017 at 11:43 PM, Jeremy <jeremysmi...@gmail.com> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> On that point, we tell them that it is not our responsibility to >>>>>>> track their specific usage. We tell them that their are routers like >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> Fortigate which can track usage, but that we do not support those >>>>>>> devices. >>>>>>> I tell them that I think the new Torch router does it too, but that we >>>>>>> have >>>>>>> no experience with these devices. "The only way that we track which >>>>>>> websites are visited and what you are doing on the Internet is with a >>>>>>> warrant or an order from the Department of Justice". We stand behind >>>>>>> our >>>>>>> usage tracking, and if they do not want to pay the bill then they can >>>>>>> find >>>>>>> another provider. We have lost two or three customers over four years >>>>>>> who >>>>>>> refuse to pay, and it usually isn't worth sending those ones to >>>>>>> collections. We just go and collect our equipment and write it off as >>>>>>> bad >>>>>>> debt. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Wed, Jun 21, 2017 at 7:52 PM, Adam Moffett <dmmoff...@gmail.com> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> That's an interesting point. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> ------ Original Message ------ >>>>>>>> From: "Stefan Englhardt" <s...@genias.net> >>>>>>>> To: af@afmug.com; "Wireless Administrator" <wirel...@htn.net> >>>>>>>> Sent: 6/21/2017 3:18:07 PM >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ready for the Xbox one X and 100GB games? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> We fade out our usage based plans. *Every* single customer who had >>>>>>>>> to pay surplus makes us a lot of work. Calls from each single family >>>>>>>>> member, what IP is this. Why cant you tell me what x.y.z.w is. I dont >>>>>>>>> use >>>>>>>>> Akamai ... >>>>>>>>> You have to take care there is no angry escalating dispute for a >>>>>>>>> view Euros. I am sure this service times cost us more money than the >>>>>>>>> customers had to pay surplus. We have to do flat pricing. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Wed, 21 Jun 2017 18:59:41 +0000 >>>>>>>>> "Wireless Administrator" <wirel...@htn.net> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> This industry is in trouble. Nobody wants usage based billing. >>>>>>>>>> Customers don’t want it for obvious reasons. ISP’s are afraid to >>>>>>>>>> implement >>>>>>>>>> it for fear of losing customers. If you lose money on an account is >>>>>>>>>> it >>>>>>>>>> really an asset to your business? I feel that the Large ISP’s have >>>>>>>>>> already >>>>>>>>>> implemented Usage Based Rate Adjustment. They seem to have an >>>>>>>>>> automated >>>>>>>>>> process to adjust rates that will force off the heavy users. Our >>>>>>>>>> industry >>>>>>>>>> will not get respect until it asks for it. UBB or UBRA (New term I >>>>>>>>>> coined) >>>>>>>>>> is the way …. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Steve >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Mark - >>>>>>>>>> Myakka Technologies >>>>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, June 21, 2017 2:07 PM >>>>>>>>>> To: Simon Westlake >>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ready for the Xbox one X and 100GB games? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Simon, >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> But metered billing makes them think about what they are doing. >>>>>>>>>> Does the baby need to be falling asleep watching a 4K movie? The >>>>>>>>>> best way >>>>>>>>>> I can put it is renting an apartment with utilities included. If I'm >>>>>>>>>> renting an apartment in FL with electric included, my AC is going to >>>>>>>>>> be set >>>>>>>>>> at 68 24/7. The cat will be very comfortable all day, why should I >>>>>>>>>> care. >>>>>>>>>> However, if I'm paying for electric, the cat will have to deal with >>>>>>>>>> 78 >>>>>>>>>> during the day and I may have to deal with 72 when I get home. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Bandwidth prices are dropping for some, but for others it is >>>>>>>>>> still expensive. Not to mention the HW costs to upgrade your >>>>>>>>>> network to >>>>>>>>>> handle the higher bandwidth internally. >>>>>>>>>> 4K tvs cost more to buy than 1080 or 720 TV's. Why should >>>>>>>>>> someone who is willing to stream at 720 or pay for satellite TV, be >>>>>>>>>> forced >>>>>>>>>> to pay the same as that guy that wants to watch in 4K. Why should a >>>>>>>>>> single >>>>>>>>>> person who just needs dependable fast internet occasionally be force >>>>>>>>>> to pay >>>>>>>>>> the same amount as the family with 6 kids and 30 devices? Why >>>>>>>>>> should the >>>>>>>>>> kid willing to buy his game on a disc be forced to pay the same as >>>>>>>>>> the guy >>>>>>>>>> who doesn't want to get up off the couch to change a disc? >>>>>>>>>> Why is it we are the only industry that is expected to deliver a >>>>>>>>>> top notch fast and reliable service at a single low price. The >>>>>>>>>> electric >>>>>>>>>> company gets to charge per KW, the all you can eat buffet charges per >>>>>>>>>> person, the cell phone company charges per device, cable/satellite >>>>>>>>>> charges >>>>>>>>>> per box, hell even the streaming companies get to put limits on the >>>>>>>>>> number >>>>>>>>>> of people that can stream per account. Why is it when we ask a >>>>>>>>>> heavy user >>>>>>>>>> to pay their fair share all hell breaks lose and we are the greedy >>>>>>>>>> bastards? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -- Best regards, >>>>>>>>>> Mark <mailto:m...@mailmt.com> mailto: >>>>>>>>>> m...@mailmt.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Myakka Technologies, Inc. >>>>>>>>>> <http://www.MyakkaTech.com> www.MyakkaTech.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Proud Sponsor of the Myakka City Relay For Life >>>>>>>>>> <http://www.RelayForLife.org/MyakkaCityFL> >>>>>>>>>> http://www.RelayForLife.org/MyakkaCityFL >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Please Donate at Please Donate at <http://www.myakkatech.com/RFL >>>>>>>>>> .html> http://www.myakkatech.com/RFL.html >>>>>>>>>> ------ >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Wednesday, June 21, 2017, 1:11:27 PM, you wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> The problem with metered billing is that it doesn't solve the >>>>>>>>>> problem. The customer still purchased a game they want to download, >>>>>>>>>> or they >>>>>>>>>> have a 4K TV they want to watch movies on. Most people are just >>>>>>>>>> going to >>>>>>>>>> look for other options if they have to pay every time they try to >>>>>>>>>> use a >>>>>>>>>> device in their household, and even if people are willing to pay, >>>>>>>>>> you still >>>>>>>>>> have to be able to deliver enough service to them to give them the >>>>>>>>>> speeds >>>>>>>>>> they want. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Until there is more spectrum available, I think DPI is a much >>>>>>>>>> better solution.. you can deprioritize and shape things like game >>>>>>>>>> downloads, and prioritize/shape their video streaming. I wish there >>>>>>>>>> was a >>>>>>>>>> better option, but I really don't think implementing UBB is a >>>>>>>>>> solution to >>>>>>>>>> this problem. It may give you more money to build up your network a >>>>>>>>>> bit, >>>>>>>>>> but it is poison to most customer's ears, and it won't change their >>>>>>>>>> behavior that much unless it's extremely painful for them >>>>>>>>>> financially. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On 6/21/2017 10:51 AM, Steve Jones wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> metered billing.. wave of the future >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Jun 21, 2017 at 9:46 AM, Adam Moffett < <mailto: >>>>>>>>>> dmmoff...@gmail.com> dmmoff...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I read some scary stuff the other day along a similar vein. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Basically if you're selling 25mbps then you'll need a 4:1 >>>>>>>>>> oversubscription ratio to support peak hours hi def streaming without >>>>>>>>>> complaint. >>>>>>>>>> As adoption of 4K video increases, that ratio will approach 1:1. >>>>>>>>>> You'll have to either start supplying 100meg, or start billing for >>>>>>>>>> consumption....or jack the price way up. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> They were looking only at streaming video trends, and didn't even >>>>>>>>>> consider stuff like this. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> ------ Original Message ------ >>>>>>>>>> From: "Jeremy" < <mailto:jeremysmi...@gmail.com> >>>>>>>>>> jeremysmi...@gmail.com> >>>>>>>>>> To: <mailto:af@afmug.com> af@afmug.com >>>>>>>>>> Sent: 6/21/2017 1:03:09 AM >>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ready for the Xbox one X and 100GB games? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Yeah, this sucks for us. Even worse, many of these games come >>>>>>>>>> out with dual licenses so that you can play on Windows 10 or XB1 for >>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>> same purchase. I bought a couple games and checked it out. It was >>>>>>>>>> amazing >>>>>>>>>> to be able to just continue my Halo Wars right where I left off on my >>>>>>>>>> laptop, but it was double the download size. This makes Forza >>>>>>>>>> potentially >>>>>>>>>> 200GB, without DLC. When you are providing customers 300-500GB per >>>>>>>>>> month >>>>>>>>>> without overages it makes heavy Xbox customers very quickly switch >>>>>>>>>> providers. I'm not sure if that is a blessing or a curse. For now, >>>>>>>>>> it has >>>>>>>>>> not been a gigantic churn issue for us, but the future of 4K content >>>>>>>>>> will >>>>>>>>>> likely hit us all pretty hard. >>>>>>>>>> My main issue with this is that purchasing a disc is not an >>>>>>>>>> option. I initially bought discs, only to find that even after >>>>>>>>>> ripping >>>>>>>>>> them to the hard drive, I have to walk down to the network closet to >>>>>>>>>> insert >>>>>>>>>> the disc. Digitally purchased games can just be loaded from a menu, >>>>>>>>>> like >>>>>>>>>> all of the hacked consoles. There is no option to 'upgrade' to a >>>>>>>>>> digital >>>>>>>>>> license if you have purchased a disc. Also, if you own multiple >>>>>>>>>> Xbox One >>>>>>>>>> consoles (say at home and at work), you can play any of your games on >>>>>>>>>> either console, at any time, just not simultaneously. Discs are now >>>>>>>>>> useless to me. The only way to get this digital license is to >>>>>>>>>> download it >>>>>>>>>> from the Internet (or hack the console...not yet an option). This >>>>>>>>>> has been >>>>>>>>>> a big bummer to heavy Xbox users when they get hit with massive >>>>>>>>>> overages, >>>>>>>>>> and they usually switch to Comcast. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 20, 2017 at 10:19 PM, Eric Kuhnke < <mailto: >>>>>>>>>> eric.kuh...@gmail.com> eric.kuh...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> This will be the new normal with the next generation Xbox, when >>>>>>>>>> many customers start bringing them home... >>>>>>>>>> <https://m.hardocp.com/news/2017/06/18/forza_motorsport_7_wi >>>>>>>>>> ll_be_100gb_download> https://m.hardocp.com/news/201 >>>>>>>>>> 7/06/18/forza_motorsport_7_will_be_100gb_download >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -- Simon Westlake >>>>>>>>>> Email: <mailto:simon@sonar.software> simon@sonar.software >>>>>>>>>> Phone: (702) 447-1247 US / (780) 900-1180 CA >>>>>>>>>> --------------------------- >>>>>>>>>> Sonar Software Inc >>>>>>>>>> The future of ISP billing and OSS >>>>>>>>>> <https://sonar.software> https://sonar.software >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>> >> >
