you go right ahead and do DPI / deprioritize all TLS type traffic, that is something I would highly encourage any of my competitors to do... Since a huge % of web traffic is https now, netflix is https/tls1.2, youtube is https/tls1.2, etc, all you would accomplish is hurting everyone's throughput for all of the most common websites and applications.
On Fri, Jun 23, 2017 at 11:27 AM, Sean Heskett <af...@zirkel.us> wrote: > how is it illegal? FCC says we can manage our networks as needed. > > On Fri, Jun 23, 2017 at 12:55 AM, Josh Reynolds <j...@kyneticwifi.com> > wrote: > >> And illegal. >> >> - Josh >> >> On Jun 22, 2017 11:22 AM, "Mike Hammett" <af...@ics-il.net> wrote: >> >>> We go from bad idea to worse? >>> >>> >>> >>> ----- >>> Mike Hammett >>> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/> >>> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL> >>> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb> >>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions> >>> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL> >>> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/> >>> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix> >>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange> >>> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix> >>> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/> >>> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp> >>> >>> >>> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg> >>> ------------------------------ >>> *From: *"Kurt Fankhauser" <lists.wavel...@gmail.com> >>> *To: *af@afmug.com >>> *Sent: *Thursday, June 22, 2017 10:15:11 AM >>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Ready for the Xbox one X and 100GB games? >>> >>> Can you block/throttle a VPN connection with DPI? Make it so that if the >>> customer turns it on the VPN their connection gets worse than with it off? >>> >>> On Wed, Jun 21, 2017 at 11:43 PM, Jeremy <jeremysmi...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>> On that point, we tell them that it is not our responsibility to track >>>> their specific usage. We tell them that their are routers like the >>>> Fortigate which can track usage, but that we do not support those devices. >>>> I tell them that I think the new Torch router does it too, but that we have >>>> no experience with these devices. "The only way that we track which >>>> websites are visited and what you are doing on the Internet is with a >>>> warrant or an order from the Department of Justice". We stand behind our >>>> usage tracking, and if they do not want to pay the bill then they can find >>>> another provider. We have lost two or three customers over four years who >>>> refuse to pay, and it usually isn't worth sending those ones to >>>> collections. We just go and collect our equipment and write it off as bad >>>> debt. >>>> >>>> On Wed, Jun 21, 2017 at 7:52 PM, Adam Moffett <dmmoff...@gmail.com> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> That's an interesting point. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ------ Original Message ------ >>>>> From: "Stefan Englhardt" <s...@genias.net> >>>>> To: af@afmug.com; "Wireless Administrator" <wirel...@htn.net> >>>>> Sent: 6/21/2017 3:18:07 PM >>>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ready for the Xbox one X and 100GB games? >>>>> >>>>> We fade out our usage based plans. *Every* single customer who had to >>>>>> pay surplus makes us a lot of work. Calls from each single family member, >>>>>> what IP is this. Why cant you tell me what x.y.z.w is. I dont use Akamai >>>>>> ... >>>>>> You have to take care there is no angry escalating dispute for a view >>>>>> Euros. I am sure this service times cost us more money than the customers >>>>>> had to pay surplus. We have to do flat pricing. >>>>>> >>>>>> On Wed, 21 Jun 2017 18:59:41 +0000 >>>>>> "Wireless Administrator" <wirel...@htn.net> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> This industry is in trouble. Nobody wants usage based billing. >>>>>>> Customers don’t want it for obvious reasons. ISP’s are afraid to >>>>>>> implement >>>>>>> it for fear of losing customers. If you lose money on an account is it >>>>>>> really an asset to your business? I feel that the Large ISP’s have >>>>>>> already >>>>>>> implemented Usage Based Rate Adjustment. They seem to have an automated >>>>>>> process to adjust rates that will force off the heavy users. Our >>>>>>> industry >>>>>>> will not get respect until it asks for it. UBB or UBRA (New term I >>>>>>> coined) >>>>>>> is the way …. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Steve >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Mark - Myakka >>>>>>> Technologies >>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, June 21, 2017 2:07 PM >>>>>>> To: Simon Westlake >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ready for the Xbox one X and 100GB games? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Simon, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> But metered billing makes them think about what they are doing. >>>>>>> Does the baby need to be falling asleep watching a 4K movie? The best >>>>>>> way >>>>>>> I can put it is renting an apartment with utilities included. If I'm >>>>>>> renting an apartment in FL with electric included, my AC is going to be >>>>>>> set >>>>>>> at 68 24/7. The cat will be very comfortable all day, why should I >>>>>>> care. >>>>>>> However, if I'm paying for electric, the cat will have to deal with 78 >>>>>>> during the day and I may have to deal with 72 when I get home. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Bandwidth prices are dropping for some, but for others it is still >>>>>>> expensive. Not to mention the HW costs to upgrade your network to >>>>>>> handle >>>>>>> the higher bandwidth internally. >>>>>>> 4K tvs cost more to buy than 1080 or 720 TV's. Why should someone >>>>>>> who is willing to stream at 720 or pay for satellite TV, be forced to >>>>>>> pay >>>>>>> the same as that guy that wants to watch in 4K. Why should a single >>>>>>> person >>>>>>> who just needs dependable fast internet occasionally be force to pay the >>>>>>> same amount as the family with 6 kids and 30 devices? Why should the >>>>>>> kid >>>>>>> willing to buy his game on a disc be forced to pay the same as the guy >>>>>>> who >>>>>>> doesn't want to get up off the couch to change a disc? >>>>>>> Why is it we are the only industry that is expected to deliver a top >>>>>>> notch fast and reliable service at a single low price. The electric >>>>>>> company gets to charge per KW, the all you can eat buffet charges per >>>>>>> person, the cell phone company charges per device, cable/satellite >>>>>>> charges >>>>>>> per box, hell even the streaming companies get to put limits on the >>>>>>> number >>>>>>> of people that can stream per account. Why is it when we ask a heavy >>>>>>> user >>>>>>> to pay their fair share all hell breaks lose and we are the greedy >>>>>>> bastards? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- Best regards, >>>>>>> Mark <mailto:m...@mailmt.com> mailto: >>>>>>> m...@mailmt.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Myakka Technologies, Inc. >>>>>>> <http://www.MyakkaTech.com> www.MyakkaTech.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Proud Sponsor of the Myakka City Relay For Life >>>>>>> <http://www.RelayForLife.org/MyakkaCityFL> >>>>>>> http://www.RelayForLife.org/MyakkaCityFL >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Please Donate at Please Donate at <http://www.myakkatech.com/RFL >>>>>>> .html> http://www.myakkatech.com/RFL.html >>>>>>> ------ >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Wednesday, June 21, 2017, 1:11:27 PM, you wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The problem with metered billing is that it doesn't solve the >>>>>>> problem. The customer still purchased a game they want to download, or >>>>>>> they >>>>>>> have a 4K TV they want to watch movies on. Most people are just going to >>>>>>> look for other options if they have to pay every time they try to use a >>>>>>> device in their household, and even if people are willing to pay, you >>>>>>> still >>>>>>> have to be able to deliver enough service to them to give them the >>>>>>> speeds >>>>>>> they want. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Until there is more spectrum available, I think DPI is a much better >>>>>>> solution.. you can deprioritize and shape things like game downloads, >>>>>>> and >>>>>>> prioritize/shape their video streaming. I wish there was a better >>>>>>> option, >>>>>>> but I really don't think implementing UBB is a solution to this >>>>>>> problem. It >>>>>>> may give you more money to build up your network a bit, but it is >>>>>>> poison to >>>>>>> most customer's ears, and it won't change their behavior that much >>>>>>> unless >>>>>>> it's extremely painful for them financially. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 6/21/2017 10:51 AM, Steve Jones wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> metered billing.. wave of the future >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Wed, Jun 21, 2017 at 9:46 AM, Adam Moffett < <mailto: >>>>>>> dmmoff...@gmail.com> dmmoff...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I read some scary stuff the other day along a similar vein. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Basically if you're selling 25mbps then you'll need a 4:1 >>>>>>> oversubscription ratio to support peak hours hi def streaming without >>>>>>> complaint. >>>>>>> As adoption of 4K video increases, that ratio will approach 1:1. >>>>>>> You'll have to either start supplying 100meg, or start billing for >>>>>>> consumption....or jack the price way up. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> They were looking only at streaming video trends, and didn't even >>>>>>> consider stuff like this. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ------ Original Message ------ >>>>>>> From: "Jeremy" < <mailto:jeremysmi...@gmail.com> >>>>>>> jeremysmi...@gmail.com> >>>>>>> To: <mailto:af@afmug.com> af@afmug.com >>>>>>> Sent: 6/21/2017 1:03:09 AM >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ready for the Xbox one X and 100GB games? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Yeah, this sucks for us. Even worse, many of these games come out >>>>>>> with dual licenses so that you can play on Windows 10 or XB1 for the >>>>>>> same >>>>>>> purchase. I bought a couple games and checked it out. It was amazing >>>>>>> to >>>>>>> be able to just continue my Halo Wars right where I left off on my >>>>>>> laptop, >>>>>>> but it was double the download size. This makes Forza potentially >>>>>>> 200GB, >>>>>>> without DLC. When you are providing customers 300-500GB per month >>>>>>> without >>>>>>> overages it makes heavy Xbox customers very quickly switch providers. >>>>>>> I'm >>>>>>> not sure if that is a blessing or a curse. For now, it has not been a >>>>>>> gigantic churn issue for us, but the future of 4K content will likely >>>>>>> hit >>>>>>> us all pretty hard. >>>>>>> My main issue with this is that purchasing a disc is not an option. >>>>>>> I initially bought discs, only to find that even after ripping them to >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> hard drive, I have to walk down to the network closet to insert the >>>>>>> disc. >>>>>>> Digitally purchased games can just be loaded from a menu, like all of >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> hacked consoles. There is no option to 'upgrade' to a digital license >>>>>>> if >>>>>>> you have purchased a disc. Also, if you own multiple Xbox One consoles >>>>>>> (say at home and at work), you can play any of your games on either >>>>>>> console, at any time, just not simultaneously. Discs are now useless to >>>>>>> me. The only way to get this digital license is to download it from the >>>>>>> Internet (or hack the console...not yet an option). This has been a big >>>>>>> bummer to heavy Xbox users when they get hit with massive overages, and >>>>>>> they usually switch to Comcast. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 20, 2017 at 10:19 PM, Eric Kuhnke < <mailto: >>>>>>> eric.kuh...@gmail.com> eric.kuh...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> This will be the new normal with the next generation Xbox, when many >>>>>>> customers start bringing them home... >>>>>>> <https://m.hardocp.com/news/2017/06/18/forza_motorsport_7_wi >>>>>>> ll_be_100gb_download> https://m.hardocp.com/news/201 >>>>>>> 7/06/18/forza_motorsport_7_will_be_100gb_download >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- Simon Westlake >>>>>>> Email: <mailto:simon@sonar.software> simon@sonar.software >>>>>>> Phone: (702) 447-1247 US / (780) 900-1180 CA >>>>>>> --------------------------- >>>>>>> Sonar Software Inc >>>>>>> The future of ISP billing and OSS >>>>>>> <https://sonar.software> https://sonar.software >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>> >>> >
