I don't feel motivated to kill this thread in my role as list moderator, and I agree that what's on or off topic is fairly fuzzy ... but I just have a sense that discussions of various varieties of drug-induced (or otherwise induced) states of exalted consciousness is a bit off-topic for an AGI list ... anyway I don't feel it quite right to share my own experiences in this regard in this forum ;-)
Ben G On Sun, Nov 23, 2008 at 5:21 PM, Ed Porter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Ben, > > > > It's your list, so you get to decide what is off topic. > > > > Are you implying all discussion of subjectively describable aspect of human > conscious experience is off topic? > > > > At least in my own experience, thinking about introspective subjective > experiences has played a major role in my thinking about AGI. Thus, I tend > to have a bias toward thinking discussions of such thinking are relevant to > AGI. > > > > If p-consciousness, such as discussed in Richard's paper, is relevant to > AGI, then why isn't a-consciousness? > > > > Or, perhaps, your implication about what is off topic was more narrow? > > > > That is what I assumed, and that is why, in the post you responding to > below, I was asking if there were any describable non-entheogenic aspects of > the ego-loss experience, other than what I had already described. > > > > Ed Porter > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Ben Goertzel [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Sunday, November 23, 2008 4:04 PM > To: agi@v2.listbox.com > Subject: Re: [agi] A paper that actually does solve the problem of > consciousness > > > > Goodness.. I feel like > > > > a) it is mighty hard to draw distinctions about these kinds of > > experiences in ordinary, informal language... > > > > b) this is kinda off topic for the list ;-) > > > > ben > > > > On Sun, Nov 23, 2008 at 3:28 PM, Ed Porter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> Eric, > >> > >> > >> > >> If, as your post below implies, you have experienced "ego loss," --- >> please > >> tell me --- how, if at all, was it different than the sense of oneness >> with > >> the surround world that I described in my post of Fri 11/21/2008 8:02 PM > >> which started this named thread. > >> > >> > >> > >> That is, how was it different than merely having, for an extended period >> of > >> time, a oneness with sensual experience of the computational richness of > >> external reality around (or perhaps of just ones breathing and feelings it > >> engenders) --- a oneness uninterrupted by awareness of oneself as a > >> something separate from such sensations or by the chattering of the >> chatbot > >> most of us have inside our heads --- other than for the standard effects >> on > >> sensations and emotions one would routinely associate with being > >> entheogenned. > >> > >> > >> > >> Ed Porter > >> > >> > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: Eric Burton [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > >> Sent: Sunday, November 23, 2008 11:40 AM > >> To: agi@v2.listbox.com > >> Subject: Re: [agi] A paper that actually does solve the problem of > >> consciousness > >> > >> > >> > >> Hey, ego loss is attendant with even modest doses of LSD or > >> > >> psilocybin. At ~ 700 mics I found that effect to be very much > >> > >> background > >> > >> > >> > >> On 11/21/08, Ed Porter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> > >>> Ben, > >> > >>> > >> > >>> "Entheogens!" > >> > >>> > >> > >>> What a great word/euphemism. > >> > >>> > >> > >>> Is it pronounced like "Inns" (where travelers sleep) + "Theo" (short for > >> > >>> "Theodore") + "gins"(a subset of liquors I normally avoid like the >>> plague, > >> > >>> except in the occasional summer gin and tonic with lime)? > >> > >>> > >> > >>> What is the respective emphasis given to each of these three parts in the > >> > >>> proper pronunciations. > >> > >>> > >> > >>> It is a word that would be deeply appreciated by many at my local > >>> Unitarian > >> > >>> Church. > >> > >>> > >> > >>> Ed Porter > >> > >>> > >> > >>> -----Original Message----- > >> > >>> From: Ben Goertzel [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > >> > >>> Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2008 7:11 PM > >> > >>> To: agi@v2.listbox.com > >> > >>> Subject: Re: [agi] A paper that actually does solve the problem of > >> > >>> consciousness > >> > >>> > >> > >>>> When I was in college and LSD was the rage, one of the main goals of the > >> > >>>> heavy duty heads was "ego loss" which was to achieve a sense of cosmic > >> > >>>> oneness with all of the universe. It was commonly stated that 1000 > >> > >>>> micrograms was the ticket to "ego loss." I never went there. Nor have >>>> I > >> > >>>> ever achieved cosmic oneness through meditation, although I have >>>> achieved > >> > >>>> temporary (say fifteen or thirty seconds) feeling of deep peaceful >>>> bliss. > >> > >>>> > >> > >>>> Perhaps you have been more brave (acid wise) or much lucky or >>>> disciplined > >> > >>>> meditation wise, and have achieve a seen of oneness with the cosmic > >> > >>>> consciousness. If so, I tip my hat (and Colbert wag of the finger) to > >> > >>> you. > >> > >>> > >> > >>> Not a great topic for public mailing list discussion but .. uh . yah .. > >> > >>> > >> > >>> But it's not really so much about the dosage ... entheogens are tools > >> > >>> and it's all about what you do with them ;-) > >> > >>> > >> > >>> ben > >> > >>> > >> > >>> > >> > >>> ------------------------------------------- > >> > >>> agi > >> > >>> Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now > >> > >>> RSS Feed: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/ > >> > >>> Modify Your Subscription: > >> > >>> https://www.listbox.com/member/?&; > >> > >>> Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com > >> > >>> > >> > >>> > >> > >> > >> > >> ________________________________ > >> agi | Archives | Modify Your Subscription > > > > > > > > -- > > Ben Goertzel, PhD > > CEO, Novamente LLC and Biomind LLC > > Director of Research, SIAI > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > "The empires of the future are the empires of the mind." > > -- Sir Winston Churchill > > > > > > ------------------------------------------- > > agi > > Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now > > RSS Feed: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/ > > Modify Your Subscription: https://www.listbox.com/member/?&; > > Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com > > ________________________________ > agi | Archives | Modify Your Subscription -- Ben Goertzel, PhD CEO, Novamente LLC and Biomind LLC Director of Research, SIAI [EMAIL PROTECTED] "The empires of the future are the empires of the mind." -- Sir Winston Churchill ------------------------------------------- agi Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now RSS Feed: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/ Modify Your Subscription: https://www.listbox.com/member/?member_id=8660244&id_secret=120640061-aded06 Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com
