What can I say... I am shocked and so angry against you Arieh, you
disappointed me so much in this email, I can't beleive it!
How dare you say I'm racist!!! This is the very first time anyone ever
told me that, and I just can't accept it! I will try however to stay calm
and control myself, only because I promised myself a long time ago.
I just want to clear up some things :
1 - You say I'm more racist than those cartoons, yet you say you never saw
them...
2 - I said they were drawn by christians or jews because they simply
couldn't be drawn by a muslim, sorry if I forgot to add "or anyone not
beleiving in God".
3 - If you take my sentence from a neutral state and change it into I have
some hate against both christians and jews, then you really have a
problem.. you don't know me and never will, don't start saying things
about me! it's not even in PM!
4 - Maybe now you should also add that I have a problem with "anyone not
beleiving in God" (see points 2 and 3)
5 - I never wanted to comment on Israel, and I said so many times, when I
talked about opression, I talked about the world's opression against us,
when I said killed by Bush and Jews, I corrected myself saying Israel
(after Phil stated it was Israel, not Jews), and that, no matter what link
you send me, or what story you want to tell, the fact stays that Israel
kills many innocent muslims. But still, I don't want to talk about it, as
I'm no expert in this matter and I just don't care about that story that
has many different versions and for which I know none of them (never was
interested by that story).
6 - About zionists, I never asked for an explanation, I stated it saying I
know there are also zionists, but don't what it is, that's all.
7 - I though the subject was important to everyone because it's about
respect of one's religion, you seem to love your religion, yet, you didn't
want to act in this subject, as long as the word 'Jew' wasn't pronounced..
who's the racist ?
Arieh, you owe me big apologies, I owe you none. I owe an apology to the
rest of the team for bringing that subject in, and especially to Jerome.
You were right from the beginning, it seems fights can start with such a
subject. Now I will remember that french proverb and try no to forget it.
It seems this is a Hot Topic, not an Off Topic.. All I wanted is to share
that link with everyone and give the opportunity for everyone to vote
there, as well as explain the situation for those who don't understand it.
Some wrote me PMs to ask for more info, some prefered discussion it on the
list (which is not bad either), and someone seems to love war and starts a
riot.. In that last case, I can't do much about it. Jerome, You said you'd
hate to see someone stop contributing because he has a problem with me,
for that matter, I took a decision which will allow everyone to keep
working on aMSN without any consideration for me, without any hard
feelings..
Due to my lack of professionalism that was pointed out by this thread, and
many others also, I decided to retire myself from the project. It's been a
while since I've been thinking about it, and I even shared it with some of
you, but I never did it because I always wanted to help. But I'm feeling
lately that I'm doing the opposite. Also, aMSN was a hobby for me and that
kept me working on it, but it has become a chore, and I want to stop it
now..
I'll be leaving shortly, I'll stay with you for a while, and retire slowly
until everyone forgets about me.
This is a rational decision, not taken out of anger, and I do not want to
start a mass message bombing like what happened when Vivia 'decided' to
leave the project. I repeat, I DO NOT WANT any emails trying to convince
me to stay or telling me how much aMSN needs me or whatever.. (this is the
other reason why I didn't leave before, because as I was going to, Vivia
sent out that email of hers...)
Good luck everyone with the project, and forget about this thread that
just showed me that :
non muslims will never understand muslims
Arieh is more agressive and mindless than I ever though one would be...
KaKaRoTo
On Tue, 07 Feb 2006 07:46:19 -0500, Arieh Schneier
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I was going to stay away completely from this thread, however some of the
statements that Youness made have obliged me to reply. I will however
keep
it very and generalised. Also note, I had note seen the 12 images before
reading this thread.
To start with, some of the comments that Younness have made if you ask me
are a lot worse and more racist than those cartoons. And then if you
want to
say the following:
Sorry, I didn't mean to shock!! I said that in a joking manner...
how do you know that the artists who drew the cartoons weren't thinking
the
same??
You said that the cartoons were drawn either by a Christians or Jews,
what
makes you say that? The only reference I can see to either in any of the
12
cartoons is the 1 which has a star of David and a crescent moon under
some
sort of ice-cream cone/pacman sketch (as you may be able to tell I don't
understand the caption and couldn't figure out the cartoon...). If you
therefore truly believe that these could only have been drawn by
Christians
or Jews then it seems that you have some hate towards both.
If you are going to comment on the situation in Israel please take a
look at
the history of Israel and the Palestinian conflict. I did a google search
and this was the first page that came up, it is very short and covers all
the major wars.
http://www.factsofisrael.com/en/history.htm
You were adamant about the fact that 'Muslims never attacked a church'
what
about synagogues? Do you know how many synagogues were destroyed by
Muslims
in the Arab controlled areas of Israel? (the number that were 'not'
destroyed could probably be counted on 1 hand)
You asked for a definition of Zionism, it is the belief that the Jewish
nation should have its own state where Jews can live under their own rule
without persecution from other nations. It began as a response to rampant
anti-Semitism in the late 19th century.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Youness Alaoui" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, February 07, 2006 9:41 AM
Subject: [Amsn-devel] Re: [Amsn-devel] OT : Fwd: des caricatures
représentant le Prophète Mohamed salla ALLAH alih wa sallam
Sorry, I didn't mean to shock!! I said that in a joking manner...
I did mean Israel indeed and didn't generalize this to all Jews... I
think
there are jews and sionists, I don't know the difference though, but I
think sionists are the pro-israely people, or the jews extremists, or I
don't know.. anyways!
About the thread, I didn't want it to be such a huge problem, it's indeed
off topic, I though people would understand the importance and go vote,
but it seems noone but people with muslim education could undestand how
much it hurts to see this problem...
Sorry for making a fuss.. it won't prevent us from releasing a good aMSN,
right? a few hours of OT mails.. was it that dramatic to the aMSN
development ?
Anyways, if people still want to talk about the subject, they can use PM
as someone else did, this way, we'll avoid disturbing Jerome and Phil..
btw.. Phil.. not having opinion on something that doesn't concern you..
ahh, you dissapoint me!
KKRT
On Mon, 06 Feb 2006 16:56:49 -0500, Le Philousophe - Phil
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Hi,
Be careful with what you say, you just shocked me !
You say I quote : "200 are killed by Bush and Jews". Israël is Jude but
Jews
aren't Israël there are many Jews in other places of the world and they
don't
ask anything to anybody ! I think this thread shouldn't have begun and
should
be stopped immediately. I suggest you continue that in PM... I think
(like
Jérome) that this Mailing list isn't a place where we should exchange
political ideas... Even if it is off topic...
Please Youness, I can understand you are affected by this story but I
believe
too you are a reasonable guy so I hope my message will be the last off
this
thread... I don't want to have opinion on the trouble as I don't feel
concerned with it.
Phil
Le Monday 06 February 2006 22:12, Youness Alaoui a écrit :
On Mon, 06 Feb 2006 16:00:32 -0500, Philippe Khalaf
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Yo,
Yo, Yo
>> Phil, too bad you're not understanding this the same way as I do..
you
>> can't ask people to stay quiet.. not after everything that's
happening..
>> how many muslims have died because some country loves to kill
muslims..
>> how many muslims live a horrible life because they are opressed by
>> others.. and how would you feel for example, if you tried to help a
>> friend
>> by being nice to him and he just took it the wrong way and stoped
>> talking
>> to you? it's the same.. the world's opinion on muslims is so bad is
is
>> almost 100% opposite to everything the Islam is...
>> so many people think Islam is violent, while it's the most non
violent
>> religion on earth...
>> people are just fed up and we just can't take it anymore and shut
up...
>> Thanks for sharing your ideas...
>
> Don't worry I do understand mostly how you feel. Let's just say that
> Lebanese Christians have a whole lot of skeletons in their closets
> (from the war) and I sometimes have to answer for it even though I
> wasn't born at the time :P
ok cool.. you have a skeleton in the closet ? can I see it? :D
> But you have to look at the bigger picture. Muslims today are like
the
> Jews of before. They are mostly seen by the "west" as evil.
humm.. I though the Jews were still seen as the evil by the whole
globe..
they only have too much power for anyone to say it out loud :P
> But on the long term I wouldn't worry to much about it. Islam is the
> largest religion on the globe and Muslims do get more children,
> therefore Islam is growing all over the world, western countries
> included. The world is trying to deal with this new dynamic and well
it
> needs time to adapt, but it eventually will. The first reaction to
any
> cultural change is always fear and hatred. It will pass.
yeah... 100 new muslims are born every day, 50 are converted from
another
religion, 200 are killed by Bush and Jews... great expansion... :)
Also, I'm worried about one thing, even if we are bigger than other
religions, most of muslims are not well educated.. look at me, I'm
'Muslim', yet, I don't pray, I don't follow any rule, I know 5% of my
religion, and I say 'fuck you' to people when I loose control.. I
should
be more pacific, don't you think? :)
all this to say that the opression made most muslims angry and I don't
know if they skeletons from the closet of the muslim people (when they
have a closet..) are not going to ruin everything..
> Laterz,
> Burger
>
>
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