HTTP://WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK ---------------------------
"Woe to those who read good for evil and evil for good Woe to those who call light darkness and darkness light" Isaiah 5, v.7 It is you who are being ridiculous, apart from your arrogance. There was no "war of Social-Imperialist aggression", that aggression was created in Washington. Yes the Americans did covertly invade Afghanistan in 1979, with the specific intention of provoking Soviet intervention, apparantly as "revenge" for Vietnam, a major preoccupation by US. policy-makers at the time. The horse's mouth says so. Z.B. has bragged and boasted about this in interviews and his book. "No I've no regrets, it was a real smart thing to do" $40 billion dollars is an aweful lot of bread and clearly they expected big dividends for that kind of money. This is important as an tailor-made Islamic fundamentalist movement was created by them by them for this purposes, by since has revolted agianst it's master with devestating consequences. --- Rolf Martens <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > HTTP://WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK > --------------------------- > > At 11:28 2001-12-09 -0800, Richard Roper > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > >Well I don't know why you are a member of this > list. > > It's because I'm against the NATO and its actions, > of course. > > You comment seems strange. It's probably caused by > my saying I was and am against the former social- > perialism in the Soviet Union and the present-day > continued new tsarism in Russia too, together with > your actually believing that ridiculous bullshit by > the > Washington Pest, the NY Slimes, Cee No Nothing, > etc etc, that the Soviet Union (from the 60s on, > say) > represented "communism" and that what was going > on in the world was a struggle between that "commu- > nism", on the one hand, and the ("traditional") im- > perialism, as represented by the USA and the NATO, > on the other - that "if you're not in favour of one > of > these, then you're for the other". > > But that was and is a very wrong picture of things, > you know. The people in the world had and have > very good reason to be strongly against both of > these reactionary forces. They should say "a plague > on both your houses", and that's what most of them > are doing too. > > "Those who're not with us [the US imperialists] > are with the terrorists", Bush is saying today - > all the more ridiculously of course, since they > themselves precisely *are* the terrorists too. > > And there are some other people too who're > saying: "If you oppose the US war against > Afghanista, then you're an adherent of Usama > bin Laden". Heard that one, Richard? > > Well, 20 or so years ago, those same people > (or their predecessors) were saying, "if you > oppose us, then you're with the Soviet Union". > Equally ridiculous, of course. Then as now, > this was a trick of trying to put people between > to fires: "cholera or pest - choose what's best". > That one always was one quite important > "strategy" of the reactionaries', against ordinary > people. > > >As it happens I am not a communist. > > I never accused you of being one either. > > Now that Washington Pest etc etc will tell you > that "communists", that's people who supported > that (really arch-reactionary) social-imperialism > of the leaders of the Soviet Union, that it was > "communism" that fell in East Europe in 1989-91, > etc. Not true, I can inform you. This nonsense > is intended to confuse people completely as to > what has been, and is, going on in the world too. > > All actual communists know that what Mao Zedong > said, as far back as in 1964, about the Soviet Union > is quite true: That the earlier socialism there had > been > overthrown and replaced by a bourgeois dictatorship > of the fascist type, of the Hitler fascist type. The > adherents of that regime rightly were and are called > revisionists, by the actual Marxists. > > > >Well yes, it was Carter and Brisinki who invaded > >Afganistan in July 1979 - it's just they did it in > a > >Covert Operation - caused five million to flee, > >devestated large parts of the country, built up a > huge > >para-miltary force etc. etc. This is the fairly > >standard description of a country subjected to a > >protracted Covert Intervention. > > > >It was the largest operation of the CIA since > Vietnam, > >millions of dollars were spent on it, and > >unparralleled propaganda operations took place in > its > >support. > > Now you're being really ridiculous, Richard. > > You actually believe that it was the CIA etc who > *invaded* Afghanistan in 1979, who "forced" the > social-imperialists into sending 100,000+ troops > into the country, so that: > > ¤ 1.5 million Afghans were killed > ¤ 5-6 million were forced to leave the country > - the > biggest refugee cathastrophy in our time - > and 1 million > more forced to leave their homes, to > become refugees in > Afghanistan itself > ¤ 7000 villages were annihilated and 5000 more > seriously > damaged > ¤ between 10 million (UN estimate) and 60 > million (other > estimates) mines were laid throughout the > country by the > invaders > ¤ these mines have so far caused 200,000 > deaths and > 400,000 maimings; they continue today to > take a heavy > toll and several decades will be required > for their > removal > ¤ large parts of the vital and scarce forests > were sys- > tematically destroyed by the Soviet forces > ¤ the infrastructure and the fields for > agriculture were > destroyed to a great extent > > It's true of course that the CIA etc, even before > this infamous social- > imperialist war of aggression, were doing what they > could to > penetrate Afghanistan, and that they during that war > pursued > reactionary interests of their own in their support, > or "support", > of the people's resistance against it. > > But to "blame" *this* war on the CIA, that's > believing that the US > imperialists at the time were "all-powerful" > (another thing those > stupid media I mention would want you to believe > too, of course) > and that "those poor and innocent" Soviet > social-imperialists > "had no will of their own". > > I'm certain that if you just reflect a little on > this, Richard, you'll > see yourself how ridiculous this idea is which > you've so far > been "buying". > > Btw, for your benefit and for that of Barry Stoller, > for instance, > I shall post to this list (in 4 parts) one thing I > sent in 1996: > "Social-imperialism's Afghan war". > > > Rolf M. > > > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? 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