I guess I don't care what the people really want to eat. My father brought two dogs from Nagaland in 1978.
He said that the owners were glad to give them away, since the locals would have eaten them. Helps in keeping the fittest survive . The hare brained dog would have been eaten for sure, though the intelligent bitch would have survived.
People in North East and other tribal areas might have been eating all animals, maybe even tigers and deer, who am I to question?
Someone suggested that we come up with a solution to this problem of rising tempers when pigs and cows are killed, so I gave my view.
I don't care if anyone likes to eat rats or cockroaches - I think in South East Asia it is a delicacy.
Maybe, we could get some voting done for each state and have separate rules -- like the system in USA where each state has its own peculiar laws.
Maybe in some areas or districts or households - even human flesh would be legal (if each household had to make its own laws) since some Tantricks eat it to show that man is made of mere flesh and blood.
What you eat is not afflcits me at all - unless ofcourse I am on your diet!!
But maybe it does to those who kill others for it - either you make law or stop the killings.
The trouble is that sometimes laws are made after there have been lots of killings --like creation of autonomous Bodo region after 3,000 deaths.
Umesh
Ajoy Hazarika <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Ajoy Hazarika <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Is it really? How about social norms of Meghaloya, Mizoram etc.?-adh
umesh sharma <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:Rajen-da,The ban on open public sex --goes against ONLY the nudist community. Why consider religion different from our social norms. Not eating pigs or cow is also a social norm -no spirituality involved there.UmeshPS:But to set a rule against beef eating for everybody only because it goes against the Hindu belief, is something quite out of the basic democratic rules.
Rajen Barua <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:>So just as one would not allow nudists to have sex openly in the neighborhood park, becos it hurts the sentiments of the >'majority' it can be argued about banning cow or pig eating too.I don't think you can quite equate that to ban on beef eating in India. That is stretching.In a democratic country we have many rules based on majority votes which are not based on religious beliefs. A ban on pronography will be voted by the majority irrespective of rligion. Same is the case of death penality. These are soicail rules voted by the majority cotizens and nt based on religious beleifs.But to set a rule against beef eating for everybody only because it goes against the Hindu belief, is something quite out of the basic democratic rules.Democracy means majority rules with protection of the moniority rights. This means that the monirity should have the right to eat beef at least i private. In the cities, the Hindus allow that. Only in rural areas , the Hindus have the problem. If the Hindus want to ban it, why not ban it even in the cities, and say that India is a Hindu state?We simply cannot bend the rules wherever we like it. Can we?Rajenda_______________________________________________----- Original Message -----From: umesh sharmaSent: Sunday, May 01, 2005 11:34 PMSubject: Re: [Assam] I/J from TehelkaRajen-da,I too was thinking about the secular issue of banning cow killing in India.I came up with an analogy: There are nudists in USA and elsewhere who would like to have sex in public - a very natural act --all animals do it --so why not --it is a free, democratic country. Ofocurse it would be consensual.Bu I don't think it will be allowed by law - even in the 'best' democracy like USA.Why?Because the majority doesn't like it. Now thats democracy!!However, Islamic state goes against right to prarctice faith -- there is no right needed - to eat pork or beef.If one is really are hard up -----one can eat so many other things -- a dog if one wishes or cat (as in China) or a horse or camel. Noone objects to that.So just as one would not allow nudists to have sex openly in the neighborhood park, becos it hurts the sentiments of the 'majority' it can be argued about banning cow or pig eating too.Umesh
Rajen Barua <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:Umesh:I did not quite get what you tried to mean. I also may not be quite clear in my views.What I was trying to say was: Beef eating may be a taboo to the Hindus in India but not to the non Hindus in India as well as to many Hindus outside India. (In other words, we may effectively say that only Indian cow is sacred, but not the British or the American cow.)Anyhow, when the Hindus try to impose the prohibition on beef eating in India on its entire citizens, it basically goes against minorities right in a democratic country. In democracy, everybody must have the basic freedom. If the entire community is prohibited to eat beef only because the Indian Hindus do not eat beef, democracy cannot function. This is one of the problems in India why we have a dysfunctional democracy in India. We simply cannot have a set of administrative rules which are not supported by the majority. In countries like India, we will always have this problem because we donot have a set of citizens who are all equal. (Even in ancient Greece and Rome, democracy worked only among its citizens which effectively excluded the slaves). In a country like India, we always have a conflict with democracy, because even according to the Gita, man are not born equal. If we believe in a se! ! ! ! cular democracy, the majority must not try to impose their beliefs or taboos on the minorities. If we want India to be a secular democracy, we cannot have any prohibition against beef eating because that is based on religious belief of one community. On the other hand, if we decide to make India a Hindu state, we can have all type of Hindu prohibition imposed on its citizens. For instance, in Saudi Arabia, one cannot eat pork, because that is a Muslim country.I was just trying to show the problem that we are having in India. We want to say to the world that we are a democratic country but in effect we donot want to practise it. This not because our government is weak or corrupt but that the comminity, the people, have a problem what it wants to do. That is the main question.In the words of Animal Farm, we want to say that we are all equal, but that some of us are more equal. Once we undertsantd this point, many aspects of Indian democrcay will be clear.We must understand one thing. That is the Britsh have in fact did a jump start of democracy in India. Left to Indians without the British rule, I seriously doubt whether we would have anby denocratic rule as we have today. I think we Indians will benefit if we understand this basic point by our heart.Rajenda_______________________________________________----- Original Message -----From: umesh sharmaTo: Rajen Barua ; [email protected]Sent: Sunday, May 01, 2005 3:20 PMSubject: Re: [Assam] I/J from TehelkaRajen-da,I think by reading your piece - it all boils down the fact that if cow killing is effectively stopped -across India - I think there is already a law to that effect (??) (which is highly unlikely seing our corrupt govt and ineffective judiciary) then this excuse would be over.In this case, Hindus were punished by other Hindus (like in last years' Haryana case)-so I had put a caste -class angel -C-da didn't seem to buy it.Umesh
Rajen Barua <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:This type of communal violence by Hindus against Muslims is not uncommon in India. Cow is a sacred thing for the Hindus which have been made more sacred by Gandhi and now by Hindutwa. Now that the Hindus have the upper hand after 1000 years in India, Hindutwa is ready to strike and take the law into their own hands where they cannot do it through the govt. Except for the cities, cow slaughter is a unofficial social crime in India. Where people find that the govt does not do it their way, people form such orgs like Hindu Yuva Sena, and take law into their hands and do it on behalf of the government. People can be incited at the slighted provocation or rumor. This is called Jungle Rule.The incident shows that at present Jungle Rule is prevalent in most parts of India specially in case of such communal violence. I am however not clear about the meaning of the Head line of the report: "Shame". Shame for what? What the article try to mean by 'Their Shame' and 'Our Shame'. Who are 'We' and 'They'? Shame at not having a Rule of Law in such cases of communal violence in India or Shame at Hindus Yuva Sena doing the thing? Untill and unless the Hindus give a free certificate that cow slaughter is OK in India, I think this type of violence will continue. And I don't think Hindus will give a blanket certificate specially in rural areas. In cities, it is a different matter.Assam may not have this type of communal Jungle Rule at present although we are not so sure. But we have other type of Jungle Rule for sure. . The incident shows what may be outcome of this type os Yuva Sena and taking laws into their own hands. With formation of our new Lachit Sena we are also going into more of this type of Jungle Rule in more areas. That is why I objected vehemently against formation of this type of Lachit Sena by AASU although I did not see much support from the Netters.My morale for such news is that Indians should be ASHAMED of such Jungle Rules whether these are for communal violence or for any other type of Dadagiri or terrorism. All should be dealt with proper force. This type of IJ is good and should be encouraged to keep the communities feet on the fire, and this type of SENAs should be outlawed so that we can insist on Rule of Law through the democratic process. For democracy s to function, all men should be treated equal as a first condition.Rajen Barua_______________________________________________----- Original Message -----From: Chan MahantaSent: Sunday, May 01, 2005 8:10 AMSubject: [Assam] I/J from TehelkaBarbaric India
THEIR SHAME, OUR SHAME
Rightwing activists strip two people for buying cattle
By Chinmayee Manjunath
Udupi, KarnatakaFor What? Hajabba (left) and Hassanabba at the hands of the mob ( In the Tehelka Website, two people on the ground, naked- cm)
As more people gathered, the father and son were stripped in front of the villagers, who remained spectators. The tormentors then called a photographer to record the show
When 70-year-old Hajabba bought a calf on March 13, little did he know he would have to pay a big cost for it. That he would be beaten up and paraded naked. That his 29-year-old son, Hassanabba, would suffer the same fate. Or that his 68-year-old friend Kanthapujari and his son Satish would be jailed for a crime they had nothing to do with. The four, belonging to Moodubettu village in Udupi district, are the latest victims of the communal tension that is eating into this picturesque region of Karnataka.
On the morning of March 13, Hajabba visited Kanthapujari at his home; the two regularly dealt in livestock. On his way back, he met another villager, Bhogushetty, who negotiated the sale of a ! ! ! ! ! calf. Paying him an advance of Rs 50, Hajabba agreed to take the calf in the evening. At 7pm, when Hajabba was on his way in his Maruti van to collect the calf, Bhogushetty stopped him near Kanthapujari's home and handed over the cattle. Moments later, a crowd of around 10 people surrounded the vehicle and dragged Hajabba out. "They just started beating me," recalls Hajabba, sitting on a bed at the hospital where he spent two weeks after the attack. The assaulters were members of the Hindu Yuva Sena (hys), a rightwing organisation with presence in the region. Meanwhile, Hassanabba, worried why his father had not returned, set out looking for him. "When I reached the spot, there were about 30 men and they began to thrash me as well," he says, flanked by his father at the hospital.
They were then bundled into autos and driven to the helipad at Adi Udupi, about 2 km away. As more people gathered, the father and son were stripped and paraded in front of the villagers, wh! ! o rema! ! ! ined mute spectators. "Nobody came to help us. Everyone just stood and watched," recounts a traumatised Hajabba.
The hys then called in a photographer. "They made us pose, saying nobody should ever buy calves after this," says Hassanabba, who lost consciousness soon after. By then, police reached the helipad from Malpe, a neighbouring town. They retrieved Hajabba's clothes and took him to the police station. Hassanabba, however, was missing. "I kept telling them to look for him but they ignored me," says Hajabba. He was questioned till midnight. But there was still no sign of Hassanabba. "I don't know where I was all night but when I got up at six in the morning, I was lying near the helipad, dressed," says the father, recalling the events of that harrowing night.
The next morning, when Hajabba registered a complaint, Kanthapujari and Satish were taken to the police station. "They kept asking us where we were the last night and we told them we ! we! re at h! ! ome,"! says Kanthapujari. A heart patient, he was admitted to a government hospital in Udupi on March 16 under police surveillance and was discharged only last week.
"Unfortunately, we got the news about the attack late and by the time my men reached the spot of attack, the son was missing. We suspect that Kanthapujari was the middleman and Satish has close links with the Bajrang Dal," says S. Murugan, the Udupi superintendent of police.
By late evening on March 14, the two were charged with being abettors of the crime and jailed. Suresh, Kanthapujari's second son, says his father may have been implicated because he is known to do business with Hajabba. But Satish, he claims, has nothing to do with the hys. Bhogushetty's name has not been mentioned in the complaints filed with the police. Satish, who was in hiding for some days, was arrested and released last week along with his father.
The prime accused, Yeshpal Suvarna and Prakash Bhandari, both leaders of the hys, have been missing since March 14. Several members of the hys have also gone underground and attempts to contact Vasudev Bhat, a prominent leader of the outfit in the region, were fruitless.
Murugan admits tension has been on the rise and it is not the first time trade of cattle has sparked off violence. Other incidents occurred in Mangalore, Karkala and Manipal, a region that has had a dominant presence of Muslims and Christians.
Weeks before the Adi Udupi incident, Vanitha, a factory worker in her early 20s, went missing under mysterious circumstances in Hejamadi village. She had asked her neighbour, Ismail, to help her find a better job. Activists of the hys attacked both for speaking to each other. When they filed a complaint, Vanitha was threatened by the hys, and was asked to withdraw her complaint. When she refused,! ! ! ! ! Vanitha was assaulted. No one knows about her whereabouts. Till now no investigation has taken place while Ismail is in hiding and Vanitha's brother, an eye-witness, is also missing.
Locals cite several such incidents. On March 19, a ceremony was held at a dargah in Udupi. It was attended by thousands. A local Kannada daily printed a photograph of two people carrying a green flag with the caption, "The Pakistani flag in Udupi." Protests began soon, and though the paper was forced by the police to print an erratum the next day, the town remained tense. Days later, on March 26, bjp mla Raghupathy Bhat led a procession in Udupi. Witnesses say Bhat withdrew from the scene as members of the Sangh Parivar began to stone Muslim-owned shops en route. Bhat was not available for comments.
Locals live in constant fear and refuse to even speak about the hys or the Bajrang Dal. The region, where different communities have co-existed peacefully for decades, has become! fraught! ! with communal tension. "We always lived together. Why these people cause trouble, I never understand," says Kanthapujari.
May 07 , 2005
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