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Umesh:
You seem to suggest that eating dog meat
is somehow inferior to eating cow and pig meat. Why is so? Is it because dog
meat does not taste good or it has less protein or because dog is considered an
inferior animal compared to the sacred cow in the Hindu scripture?
Rajen da
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, May 02, 2005 3:41 PM
Subject: Re: [Assam] I/J from
Tehelka--cat or rat
I guess I don't care what the people really want to eat. My father
brought two dogs from Nagaland in 1978.
He said that the owners were glad to give them away, since the locals
would have eaten them. Helps in keeping the fittest survive . The hare brained
dog would have been eaten for sure, though the intelligent bitch would have
survived.
People in North East and other tribal areas might have been eating all
animals, maybe even tigers and deer, who am I to question?
Someone suggested that we come up with a solution to this problem of
rising tempers when pigs and cows are killed, so I gave my view.
I don't care if anyone likes to eat rats or cockroaches - I think in
South East Asia it is a delicacy.
Maybe, we could get some voting done for each state and have separate
rules -- like the system in USA where each state has its own peculiar
laws.
Maybe in some areas or districts or households - even human flesh would
be legal (if each household had to make its own laws) since some Tantricks eat
it to show that man is made of mere flesh and blood.
What you eat is not afflcits me at all - unless ofcourse I am on your
diet!!
But maybe it does to those who kill others for it - either you make law
or stop the killings.
The trouble is that sometimes laws are made after there have been lots of
killings --like creation of autonomous Bodo region after 3,000 deaths.
Umesh
Ajoy Hazarika
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Is it really? How about social norms of Meghaloya, Mizoram
etc.?
-adh
umesh sharma <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
Rajen-da,
The ban on open public sex --goes against ONLY the nudist
community. Why consider religion different from our social
norms. Not eating pigs or cow is also a social norm -no spirituality
involved there.
Umesh
PS:
But to set a rule against beef
eating for everybody only because it goes against the Hindu
belief, is something quite out of the basic democratic
rules. Rajen Barua
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>So just as one would not allow nudists to have sex openly in
the neighborhood park, becos it hurts the sentiments of the
>'majority' it can be argued about banning cow or pig eating
too.
I don't think you can quite equate
that to ban on beef eating in India. That is stretching.
In a democratic country we have
many rules based on majority votes which are not based on religious
beliefs. A ban on pronography will be voted by the majority irrespective
of rligion. Same is the case of death penality. These are soicail rules
voted by the majority cotizens and nt based on religious beleifs.
But to set a rule against
beef eating for everybody only because it goes against the
Hindu belief, is something quite out of the basic democratic
rules.
Democracy means majority rules
with protection of the moniority rights. This means that the monirity
should have the right to eat beef at least i private. In the cities, the
Hindus allow that. Only in rural areas , the Hindus have the
problem. If the Hindus want to ban it, why not ban it even in the
cities, and say that India is a Hindu state?
We simply cannot bend the rules
wherever we like it. Can we?
Rajenda
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, May 01, 2005 11:34
PM
Subject: Re: [Assam] I/J from
Tehelka
Rajen-da,
I too was thinking about the secular issue of banning cow killing
in India.
I came up with an analogy: There are nudists in USA and elsewhere
who would like to have sex in public - a very natural act --all
animals do it --so why not --it is a free, democratic country.
Ofocurse it would be consensual.
Bu I don't think it will be allowed by law - even in the 'best'
democracy like USA.
Why?
Because the majority doesn't like it. Now thats democracy!!
However, Islamic state goes against right to prarctice faith --
there is no right needed - to eat pork or beef.
If one is really are hard up -----one can eat so many other
things -- a dog if one wishes or cat (as in China) or a horse or
camel. Noone objects to that.
So just as one would not allow nudists to have sex openly in the
neighborhood park, becos it hurts the sentiments of the 'majority' it
can be argued about banning cow or pig eating too.
Umesh
Rajen Barua
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Umesh:
I did not quite get what
you tried to mean. I also may not be quite clear in my
views.
What I was trying to say was:
Beef eating may be a taboo to the Hindus in India but not to
the non Hindus in India as well as to many Hindus outside
India. (In other words, we may effectively say that only Indian cow
is sacred, but not the British or the American cow.)
Anyhow, when the Hindus try to
impose the prohibition on beef eating in India on its entire
citizens, it basically goes against minorities right in a
democratic country. In democracy, everybody must have the
basic freedom. If the entire community is prohibited to
eat beef only because the Indian Hindus do not eat beef, democracy
cannot function. This is one of the problems in India why we
have a dysfunctional democracy in India. We simply cannot have a set
of administrative rules which are not supported by the
majority. In countries like India, we will always have this problem
because we donot have a set of citizens who are all equal.
(Even in ancient Greece and Rome, democracy worked only among its
citizens which effectively excluded the slaves). In a country
like India, we always have a conflict with democracy, because even
according to the Gita, man are not born equal. If we believe in a
se! ! ! ! cular democracy, the majority must not try to impose their
beliefs or taboos on the minorities. If we want India to be a secular democracy, we cannot
have any prohibition against beef eating because that is based on
religious belief of one community. On the other hand, if we decide
to make India a Hindu state, we can have all type of Hindu
prohibition imposed on its citizens. For instance, in Saudi Arabia,
one cannot eat pork, because that is a Muslim country.
I was just trying to show the
problem that we are having in India. We want to say to the world
that we are a democratic country but in effect we donot want to
practise it. This not because our government is weak or corrupt but
that the comminity, the people, have a problem what it wants to
do. That is the main
question.
In the words of Animal Farm,
we want to say that we are all equal, but that some of us are more
equal. Once we undertsantd this point, many aspects of Indian
democrcay will be clear.
We must understand one thing.
That is the Britsh have in fact did a jump start of democracy in
India. Left to Indians without the British rule, I seriously doubt
whether we would have anby denocratic rule as we have today. I think
we Indians will benefit if we understand this basic point by our
heart.
Rajenda
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, May 01, 2005
3:20 PM
Subject: Re: [Assam] I/J from
Tehelka
Rajen-da,
I think by reading your piece - it all boils down the fact
that if cow killing is effectively stopped -across India - I think
there is already a law to that effect (??) (which is highly
unlikely seing our corrupt govt and ineffective
judiciary) then this excuse would be over.
In this case, Hindus were punished by other Hindus (like in
last years' Haryana case)-so I had put a caste -class angel -C-da
didn't seem to buy it.
Umesh
Rajen Barua
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
This type of communal violence by Hindus
against Muslims is not uncommon in India. Cow is a sacred thing
for the Hindus which have been made more sacred by Gandhi and
now by Hindutwa. Now that the Hindus have the upper hand after
1000 years in India, Hindutwa is ready to strike and take
the law into their own hands where they cannot do it through the
govt. Except for the cities, cow slaughter is a unofficial
social crime in India. Where people find that the govt does not
do it their way, people form such orgs like Hindu Yuva
Sena, and take law into their hands and do it on behalf of the
government. People can be incited at the slighted provocation or
rumor. This is called Jungle Rule.
The incident shows that at present Jungle
Rule is prevalent in most parts of India specially in case of
such communal violence. I am however not clear about the
meaning of the Head line of the report: "Shame". Shame for
what? What the article try to mean by 'Their Shame' and 'Our
Shame'. Who are 'We' and 'They'? Shame at not having a Rule of
Law in such cases of communal violence in India or Shame at
Hindus Yuva Sena doing the thing?
Untill and unless the Hindus give a free certificate that cow
slaughter is OK in India, I think this type of violence will
continue. And I don't think Hindus will give a blanket
certificate specially in rural areas. In cities, it is a
different matter.
Assam may not have this type of communal
Jungle Rule at present although we are not so sure. But we have
other type of Jungle Rule for sure. . The incident shows what
may be outcome of this type os Yuva Sena and taking laws into
their own hands. With formation of our new Lachit Sena we
are also going into more of this type of Jungle Rule
in more areas. That is why I objected vehemently against
formation of this type of Lachit Sena by AASU although I did not
see much support from the Netters.
My morale for such news is that Indians
should be ASHAMED of such Jungle Rules whether these are for
communal violence or for any other type of Dadagiri or
terrorism. All should be dealt with proper force. This type of
IJ is good and should be encouraged to keep the communities feet
on the fire, and this type of SENAs should be outlawed so
that we can insist on Rule of Law through the democratic
process. For democracy s to function, all men should be treated
equal as a first condition.
Rajen Barua
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, May 01,
2005 8:10 AM
Subject: [Assam] I/J from
Tehelka
Barbaric
India
THEIR SHAME, OUR SHAME
Rightwing activists strip
two people for buying cattle
By Chinmayee
Manjunath
Udupi, Karnataka
For What?
Hajabba (left) and Hassanabba at the hands of the mob ( In the
Tehelka Website, two people on the ground, naked-
cm)
As more people gathered,
the father and son were stripped in front of the villagers,
who remained spectators. The tormentors then called a
photographer to record the show
When 70-year-old
Hajabba bought a calf on March 13, little did he know he would
have to pay a big cost for it. That he would be beaten up and
paraded naked. That his 29-year-old son, Hassanabba, would
suffer the same fate. Or that his 68-year-old friend
Kanthapujari and his son Satish would be jailed for a crime
they had nothing to do with. The four, belonging to Moodubettu
village in Udupi district, are the latest victims of the
communal tension that is eating into this picturesque region
of Karnataka.
On the morning of March 13, Hajabba
visited Kanthapujari at his home; the two regularly dealt in
livestock. On his way back, he met another villager,
Bhogushetty, who negotiated the sale of a ! ! ! ! ! calf.
Paying him an advance of Rs 50, Hajabba agreed to take the
calf in the evening. At 7pm, when Hajabba was on his way in
his Maruti van to collect the calf, Bhogushetty stopped him
near Kanthapujari's home and handed over the cattle. Moments
later, a crowd of around 10 people surrounded the vehicle and
dragged Hajabba out. "They just started beating me," recalls
Hajabba, sitting on a bed at the hospital where he spent two
weeks after the attack. The assaulters were members of the
Hindu Yuva Sena (hys), a rightwing organisation with presence
in the region. Meanwhile, Hassanabba, worried why his father
had not returned, set out looking for him. "When I reached the
spot, there were about 30 men and they began to thrash me as
well," he says, flanked by his father at the
hospital.
They were then bundled into autos and driven
to the helipad at Adi Udupi, about 2 km away. As more people
gathered, the father and son were stripped and paraded in
front of the villagers, wh! ! o rema! ! ! ined mute
spectators. "Nobody came to help us. Everyone just stood and
watched," recounts a traumatised Hajabba.
The hys
then called in a photographer. "They made us pose, saying
nobody should ever buy calves after this," says Hassanabba,
who lost consciousness soon after. By then, police reached the
helipad from Malpe, a neighbouring town. They retrieved
Hajabba's clothes and took him to the police station.
Hassanabba, however, was missing. "I kept telling them to look
for him but they ignored me," says Hajabba. He was questioned
till midnight. But there was still no sign of Hassanabba. "I
don't know where I was all night but when I got up at six in
the morning, I was lying near the helipad, dressed," says the
father, recalling the events of that harrowing
night.
The next morning, when Hajabba registered
a complaint, Kanthapujari and Satish were taken to the police
station. "They kept asking us where we were the last night and
we told them we ! we! re at h! ! ome,"! says Kanthapujari. A
heart patient, he was admitted to a government hospital in
Udupi on March 16 under police surveillance and was discharged
only last week.
"Unfortunately, we got the news
about the attack late and by the time my men reached the spot
of attack, the son was missing. We suspect that Kanthapujari
was the middleman and Satish has close links with the Bajrang
Dal," says S. Murugan, the Udupi superintendent of
police.
By late evening on March 14, the two were
charged with being abettors of the crime and jailed. Suresh,
Kanthapujari's second son, says his father may have been
implicated because he is known to do business with Hajabba.
But Satish, he claims, has nothing to do with the hys.
Bhogushetty's name has not been mentioned in the complaints
filed with the police. Satish, who was in hiding for some
days, was arrested and released last week along with his
father.
The
prime accused, Yeshpal Suvarna and Prakash Bhandari, both
leaders of the hys, have been missing since March 14. Several
members of the hys have also gone underground and attempts to
contact Vasudev Bhat, a prominent leader of the outfit in the
region, were fruitless.
Murugan admits tension has been
on the rise and it is not the first time trade of cattle has
sparked off violence. Other incidents occurred in Mangalore,
Karkala and Manipal, a region that has had a dominant presence
of Muslims and Christians.
Weeks before the Adi
Udupi incident, Vanitha, a factory worker in her early 20s,
went missing under mysterious circumstances in Hejamadi
village. She had asked her neighbour, Ismail, to help her find
a better job. Activists of the hys attacked both for speaking
to each other. When they filed a complaint, Vanitha was
threatened by the hys, and was asked to withdraw her
complaint. When she refused,! ! ! ! ! Vanitha was assaulted.
No one knows about her whereabouts. Till now no investigation
has taken place while Ismail is in hiding and Vanitha's
brother, an eye-witness, is also missing.
Locals cite
several such incidents. On March 19, a ceremony was held at a
dargah in Udupi. It was attended by thousands. A local Kannada
daily printed a photograph of two people carrying a green flag
with the caption, "The Pakistani flag in Udupi." Protests
began soon, and though the paper was forced by the police to
print an erratum the next day, the town remained tense. Days
later, on March 26, bjp mla Raghupathy Bhat led a procession
in Udupi. Witnesses say Bhat withdrew from the scene as
members of the Sangh Parivar began to stone Muslim-owned shops
en route. Bhat was not available for
comments.
Locals live in constant fear and refuse
to even speak about the hys or the Bajrang Dal. The region,
where different communities have co-existed peacefully for
decades, has become! fraught! ! with communal tension. "We
always lived together. Why these people cause trouble, I never
understand," says Kanthapujari.
May 07 ,
2005
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