C'da, > Or how about those parts of such systems that could serve well for >India, either in whole, or modified to fit India's needs?
At last. Now, here I can agree to some extent. A country just cannot copy from other countries. It has to modify and change and have systems tailored to its own situation. --Ram On 5/21/05, Chan Mahanta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Ram: > > > I have already expressed my fault -- of holding up Singapore's > democracy as a model for emulating. > > But I also explained, WHY I did that. It was very specifically in the > context of BAD people, like BAD Indians or BAD Assamese, or (BAD > Malays and Chinese), who could not be expected to behave well. But > the same Indians and Malays and Chinese with similar British colonial > pasts and inheriting similar British governance seem to have overcome > those traits in just a quarter century. > > What happened? > > Take wild guess Ram. > > Knowing what I do now, I am not advocating replacing Indian democracy > with the 'Singapore style of democracy'. > > But knowing that even the Indians or Chinese or Malays could be > taught to be responsible citizens one could argue that by replacing > or reforming what is dysfunctional in Indian democracy, it is indeed > possible to change things for the better. > > Now does it mean that one must emulate Singapore alone? No way. > > How about the British System? Or how about the American System? Or > how about those parts of such systems that could serve well for > India, either in whole, or modified to fit India's needs? > > There are umpteen different ways to demonstrate the same things that > Rajib does in far more useful, productive and beneficial ways. Just > because Rajib is stuck in that mode does not mean that it is the ONLY > possible outcome, just like reforms to desi-demokrasy does not > necessarily mean adopting Stalin style or Pol_Pot style regimes. > > Such mindless comparisons only demonstrate a paucity of imagination > or creativity, that's all. > > c-da > > > > > > > > > > > > > > At 9:12 AM -0500 5/21/05, Ram Sarangapani wrote: > > > I assumed the discussion was about Singapore model in > >> its entirety - not just Singapore's record of > >> cleanliness. Am I wrong there? > > > >No, no, Rajib, you are wrong here. Didn't you read C'da's response. > >They would like the whole enchilada. > > > >Nevertheless, you solution will work. It just ought to be made > >permanent, and not just for 5 years. That way, Assam will not only > >have clean cities, but good governance for ever.:-) > > > >C'da - don't you and KJD love Rajib's solution here? > > > > > >So much for this 'the grass is greener on the other side' attitude! > >--Ram > >On 5/21/05, Rajib Das <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> I assumed the discussion was about Singapore model in > >> its entirety - not just Singapore's record of > >> cleanliness. Am I wrong there? > >> > >> If I am, why not just impose presidential rule for 5 > >> years (the governors of Assam have been very proactive > >> in recent years), throw all politicians out of the > >> state, bring in the army - yes even to do policing > >> duties, allow them unfettered access to the "boys", > >> hunt them down and kill them without asking questions, > >> kill those who support them, sack corrupt or even > >> non-performing bureacrats without due recourse to law > >> to defend themselves and yes throw all Marwari > >> businessmen out. Let's see: take the guns away from > >> SULFA and get the AASU to stop doing anything other > >> than studies. > >> > >> Yes.. beat people up for peeing on the roadside, raze > >> slums to the ground, lathicharge folks when the > >> protest about bad roads, break all the extensions > >> people have done with encroachments on the road, close > >> the roadside vendor shops that don't have permits, > >> don't allow village patients to come to town hospitals > >> and park by the road. Jail kids who bunk classes to > >> watch a movie. Cane them publicly when they get into a > >> fight. > >> > >> Finally, the public, bureacrats, police, the judiciary > >> cannot complain if and when the governor decides to go > >> transfer all of Fancy Bazar real estate to his name. > >> > >> Which to do and which not? > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> --- Ram Sarangapani <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> > >> > KJD, > >> > > >> > Bhale ne? > >> > > >> > >By all appearances and measures, it has been > >> > working astoundingly > >> > well.If anti->social behavior( > >> > corruption,littering,jaywalking,spitting) is allowed > > > > to > >> > > continue in the name of democracy, then that class > >> > of democracy should be > >> > > thrown out of window--as simple as that > >> > > >> > That is a mouthful. Why do think, some netters (I am > >> > one) do not think > >> > Singapore is a model for India or even Assam to > >> > emulate? > >> > > >> > Let me try and explain, if you will. > >> > Singapore is considered the cleanest in the world. > >> > And how did it > >> > accomplish this feat (that even a rich and advanced > >> > country like the > > > > US hasn't)? > >> > > >> > Simple, by instituting draconian laws and > >> > punishments on people who > >> > misbehave, are corrupt, litter etc, etc. And sure > >> > enough, people fall > >> > in line and do whatever the great leader stipulates > >> > (since 1959, if I > >> > may add). > >> > > >> > People will have to choose. Will it be law & order, > >> > or law & order > >> > with a dash of 'due process' for people who break > >> > civic laws. There is > >> > NO due process in Singapore. Would you want that in > >> > Assam/India? > >> > Inspite of what C'da thinks, India does have more > >> > 'due process' than > >> > Singapore. > >> > > >> > I agree that anti-social behavior should not be > >> > confused with freedom. > >> > The problem, I see is in the applicability of such > >> > standards in say > >> > for example Guwahati. > >> > > >> > You ban jaywalking. Millions walk everyday. There > >> > are no crosswalks or > >> > even cops to regulate pedestrians. How would you > >> > apply this law? > >> > > >> > I can go, but you catch my drift. First the Guwahati > >> > authorities must > >> > have a system in place, and then you can order > >> > people to follow the > >> > rules. But you can't impose rules and regulations > >> > (and punishments) > >> > and expect people to follow them when they just > >> > cannot. > >> > > >> > If you ban littering. The last time I checked, > >> > Guwahati had little or > >> > no trash pickups or dumpsters. The GMC just doesn't > >> > function well, > >> > There are no thrash dumps that all the city garbage > >> > can be picked up > >> > and processed. Then to top it all, after the rains > >> > every year, we > >> > suddenly come to realize, that Guwahati actually > >> > doesn't have a > >> > drainage system that works. Where will all that > >> > filth & muck go? > >> > > >> > The other point is educating people. The rickshaw > >> > puller or the dhobi > >> > has never been 'educated' in civic duties. How do > >> > you plan to get a > >> > model civic society? > >> > > >> > And what about those middle class people in nice > >> > homes. They manage to > >> > keep their homes clean, and throw the trash out on > >> > the streets. I am > >> > not sure they need to be educated on civic duties, > >> > but they too may > >> > not have any other options than to throw stuff on > >> > the streets. > >> > > >> > I don't know the answers. > >> > But the price in the Singapore model is just too > >> > darn expensive. The > >> > price of having vastly curtailed other freedoms > >> > because I want my city > >> > to look clean. > >> > > >> > Its easier said - about this emulation business. > >> > > >> > --Ram > >> > > >> > > >> > On 5/20/05, [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > Cd, Mridul Bhuyan has said it all.You > >> > see,Singapore just does not fit some > >> > > of our fellow netter's categories.By all > >> > appearances and measures, it has > >> > > been working astoundingly well.If anti-social > >> > behavior( > >> > > corruption,littering,jaywalking,spitting) is > >> > allowed to > >> > > continue in the name of democracy, then that class > >> > of democracy should be > >> > > thrown out of window--as simple as that.But > >> > then,folks of this forum seem to > >> > > have mastered the craft of devising means by > >> > creating new alibi or pretext > >> > > or rationalization ( Whatever one calls it) in > >> > order to buttress their > >> > > arguement.Fling in few catch-phrases like " > >> > democracy/political rights" and > >> > > the job is done.Can anyone deny that India is a > >> > prime example of a > >> > > de-administration--a system of > >> > administration,which is as dumb to the need > >> > > of its citizens as a dead dodo? > >> > > > >> > > Well,well--set up "Institute of moral science" in > >> > every nook and crany of > >> > > Assam and all problems will be taken care of, of > >> > couse, by itself!!! > > > > > > >> > > KJD > >> > > _______________________________________________ > >> > > Assam mailing list > >> > > Assam@pikespeak.uccs.edu > >> > > http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/listinfo/assam > >> > > > >> > > Mailing list FAQ: > >> > > http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/assam/assam-faq.html > >> > > To unsubscribe or change options: > >> > > http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/options/assam > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > _______________________________________________ > >> > Assam mailing list > >> > Assam@pikespeak.uccs.edu > > > > http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/listinfo/assam > >> > > >> > Mailing list FAQ: > >> > http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/assam/assam-faq.html > >> > To unsubscribe or change options: > >> > http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/options/assam > >> > > >> > >> > >> __________________________________________________ > >> Do You Yahoo!? > >> Tired of spam? 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