On Fri, 10 Dec 2004 22:57:42 -0600, Susan Maneck <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Gilberto: > "And at some point, you weren't just saying the Quran is silent about > the equality but that it is positively inconsistent with it." Susan: > I think the details of the Qur'an are inconsistent with the social equality > of women as we presently understand it. Gilberto: When you say that it makes me think that on some level you don't really believe that the Quran is from God and that you especially don't really believe the pretty speeches in the Bahai writings about inexhaustible meanings of the word of God which inspired this thread. It makes me think that you are choosing to fix the meaning of the Quran to a rigid unflattering set of rules, so that you can declare it outdated. But Muslims today certainly can read the Quran faithfully and authentically, but in ways which oppose sexism and protect the interests of women. A good example, of this would be Amina Wadud's book about the Quran and women (which is still on my shopping list). Gilberto: > "it means > you want to have it [the Bahai faith] compare favorably to Islam and the > Quran > and it is difficult-to-impossible to do that without being critical of > statements in the Quran, which you say also come from God." Susan: > Recognizing a scripture's limitations is not necessarily a criticism of the > scripture itself, though it might well be a criticism of its application. Gilberto: That sounds contradictory to me. If you are actually calling the scripture limited how could that not be a criticism of the scripture itself? I mean, if you are really not criticizing the scripture itself and the problem lies in the application (perhaps working through the pre-existing cultural biases) then one could continue to apply the scripture and then gradually deepen and reform the society. Susan: > The Qur'an did what it could to improve the position of women at the time it > was written. Full eguality was neither possible nor even desirable then. This is also the Return of another discussion but the Bahai faith's view shouldn't be called "full equality". In the Bahai faith women can't participate in combat and can't be on the UHJ to make legal rulings, "Even" in Islam women like Khadijah owned their own businesses, women led troops in battle, and women can study to become scholars and muftis and make legal rulings. If you think God is compassionate and just, and you believe that the Quran is the word of God, then you should be able to follow the Quran and treat women with compassion and justice. If you don't believe the conclusion I would have serious doubts about whether you believed the premises. Peace Gilberto "My people are hydroponic" __________________________________________________ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com To unsubscribe, send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To subscribe, use subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Web - http://list.jccc.edu/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
