On Sat, 11 Dec 2004 12:19:16 EST, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > In a message dated 12/11/2004 10:45:16 A.M. Central Standard Time, > [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > Where are you getting that from?
Susan: > For gosh sakes, Gilberto. Have you never seen the fatwas to the effect that > women should not be in positions of political authority because political > leaders engage in war, and women aren't supposed to do this? Gilberto: No, I actually haven't. I honestly have never heard that argument made in any Islamic contexts. But in our discussions a few months or so ago, I had speculated that this was perhaps one conceivable "justification" for excluding women from the UHJ, namely that in the future when Bahais have taken over (?) the UHJ would conceivably use military force to enforce its rulings and since women, the givers of life, shouldn't also be givers of death, they shouldn't participate. Gilberto: I've never heard of nor seen any ayat of Quran or hadith which even suggests that women shouldn't be soldiers. Susan: > There was a female Ayatullah at the time of the Iranian revolution. But she > > could do ijtihad only on her own behalf, no own could follow her. Gilberto: I'm not particularly interested in defending Shiism. > "Women can certainly be judges in the Hanafi madhab which is the > largest and the oldest of the four traditional sunni schools." Susan: > Qazis and muftis are different things. I know that. And women can do both. > Name some female muftis for me and > cite the fetwas they issued which others followed. Aisha (ra) is obviously one big early one Here is a discussion of some past female scholars through the centuries. They didn't just give rulings on women's issues either, but on business matters, acts of worship, and other issues. And they overrode the rulings of men: http://www.livingislam.org/fiqhi/fiqha_e77.html The site below discusses female hadith scholars, which is less relevant to what we are talking about but I include it for thoroughness. http://www.islamfortoday.com/womenscholars.htm Here are some interesting stories in the recent news http://www.onlinewomeninpolitics.org/archives/03_1005_in_wid.htm http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3067758/site/newsweek/ If there are more prominent male scholars than female scholars in Islam it is overwhelmingly because of sociological reasons, not theological ones. > "And historically Aishah led troops" > Yes, against the Iman and Caliph Ali! Not the most Islamic act she ever did. Granted, that's not the best example in history, but the important thing to realize is that the soldiers didn't go "Hey wait a minue, the prophet told us that women shouldn't be doing that!" A different example would be Khaula, the sister of Dhirar Bin Al-Azwan, who fought under Khalid Bin Walid in the time of Abu Bakr (so just a few years after the prophet passed). And I'm fairly certain I'd read about a female sahaba fighting on the battlefield in the time of the prophet. > Yes, I believe the Qur'an is the Word of God and yes I believe God is > merciful and just. But no, it does not follow that one can apply everything > the Qur'an says about women in this day and be treating them either justly > or mercifully. We've had this same discussion before. If Bahais are willing to be flexible and bend issues which Muslims tend to be more rigid on (e.g. "seal of the prophets means last prophet", the non-crucifixion, Jesus isn't the son of God, Jesus isn't divine, etc.) then Muslims can be flexible in finding ways to make sense of the text which are compassionate and just to women. Personally, I tend not to find the former kinds of arguments very convincing, but the latter kind of "flexibility" seems natural and even necessary. > A doctor may well prescribe a medicine for one patient at one > time which will be poison to him at another. > 017.082 We send down (stage by stage) in the Qur'an that which is a healing and a mercy to those who believe: to the unjust it causes nothing but loss after loss. Peace Gilberto -- "My people are hydroponic" __________________________________________________ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com To unsubscribe, send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To subscribe, use subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Web - http://list.jccc.edu/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
