Gilberto Simpson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Tribal warfare tends to be BRUTAL warfare.
> Whether it be Hebrews, Arab,
> Hutu, or whatever.
How are you measuring brutality? There are larger casualties in modern
wars. Humans have certainly gotten more efficient at killing. Wars
today still include horrible atrocities. If you look at the history of
warfare I doubt that you would see much evidence of human progress.
I'll deal with this part of it here and go on with the other parts in other posts.
Gilberto,
I am measuring brutality by this standard:
Do the combatants go out of their way to kill women and children - non-combatants?
Is the purpose of the battle or war to eradicate and ethnic group or tribe?
World War Two is kind of split in this. The Nazi approach to some of the war was very "tribal" in nature, and against other opponents it was less tribal in nature - less primitively motivated.
I'll set asid the eradication of the Jews because largely that was begun before the war began - the mechanisms put in place and the arrangements planned.
The conquest of Poland was aimed at the eradication of Poland as a nation and an ethnicity. Poland was scrubbed from the map by the German conquest and the Soviet invasion of the eastern provinces of Poland.
Once the Nazis had conquered the Polish military they divided the population into two main groups - those who were "Aryan" in bloodlines, and those who were not. The "Aryan bloodlines" were "preserved" in their nomenclature and the slavs were used as grunt labor and allowed to work themselves to death for German purposes - Jew and Gentile alike.
The conquest of Poland allowed the Nazis to go ahead with extermination policies because Poland was a large open pit in which to bury whatever might be left over.
This was utter brutality, primitive in nature, tribal in outlook and would have fit well in the wars of Celtic expansion in the late neolithic, early bronze age, or the wars of the native peoples of North America. It was to the "knife" and perpetrated against man and woman and child alike.
The Nazi government fought a different war against Britain and America, obeying the basic international laws, not seeking to eradicate the British or the French or the American peoples.
Even in the excesses of the Soviet conquest of Berlin and east Germany, the rapes and murders were vengeful, they did not attempt to eradicate Germans or Germany in the process. In this way it was less brutal and less "tribal" and less "primitive".
War is in this age a somewhat controlled brutality. Clausewitz was essentially right when he called war "diplomacy by other means".
In Muhammed's youth one tribe would obliterate another. Merchants were brigands as well. Women and children were of little consequence and often killed for genocidal purposes.
Muhammed improved this. Even his treatment of the Qurayzah was less brutal than the standards of His youth.
If one needs proof of this one should consider what would have happened had the Meccans defeated the defenders of Medina and sacked the city and taken into captivity all the followers of Muhammed and Himself. What would have been their fate?
I think the Meccans would have slaughtered the lot, sparing only rare individuals on individual whim. It would have been like the sack of Troy.
So, is the standard of Muhammed in the 7th century AD an improvement over the times of His youth? Ever so much! Are the standards of warfare of Muhammed more civilized and less brutal than the times of Joshua? Ever so much!
By the standards of today is the standard of the 7th century less brutal than today? No, it is not.
When modern day Islamic leaders say "Israel must be wiped from the face of the earth" is this acceptable by modern standards? No, it isn't. The law of Islam would be used by any number of Islamic pundits to justify wiping out modern Israeli to the last man, and enslave the women and children, and by those standards it might be acceptable.
It is not acceptable by today's standards however. Civilization demands more of us s humanity.
Such is my opinion,
Regards,
Scott
Arnold J. Toynbee
