The Baha'i Studies Listserv
DEAR DR.S.MANECK,
TKS YR REPLY.I WISH U HD LET MY POST APPEARED IN THE SITE,SO THAT I CUD FEEL
FREE ATMOSPHERE HERE.NOW THE READER THINKS THAT U R SELECTING OR CENSURING THE
TEXTS,N IT IS NOT INTERESTING FR AN ACADEMIC SITE.
I PERSONALLY RESPECT YOU,N TRY TO READ YR LITERATURE AND COMMENTS.BUT DO U MEAN
THAT YOU CAN DECIDE OR LET WHO IS A BAHAI OR NOT?
I DO NOT NEED TO TELL YOU OR ANYONE ELSE TT I AM A BAHAI BY MY PARENTS.THE
FLOWER HS ITS SMELL,AND FREE SEARCH IS OUR TEACHING.WE R NOT TEACHERS FR
OTHERS.DO U SEE WHAT I MEAN?
IF WE CUD NOT TOLERATE THE LEAST CRITICISM,THEN HOW CAN WE EXPECT OTHERS,WHO
CONSIDER US AS THEIR ENEMIES,TO LET US TO DENY THEIR BASIC THOUGHTS?
FYI,I HV STUDIED LAW,AND INT'L LAW.IF U HD THE SAME BACKGROUND,IT WUD HV BEEN
EASY FR U TO UNDERSTAND TT THE RULE MADE BY GENERAL ATTORNEY IN IRAN
IS SENSE AND COMPETENT.IT IS NONSENSE TO NEGLECT IT BY APPLICATION THE WORDS OF
BANI SADR.EVEN IN THIS VERY CLEAR CASE I IGNORE THE RULE OF A
COMPETENT AUTHORITY OF IRAN BY APPLICATION TO A COMMENT OF AN OPPONENT OF
THE IRAN GOVERNMENT.
IN MY LAST POST I SAID TT THE BAHAI AUTHORITIES TRY TO WALK ON THE WAYS OF THE
OPPONENTS OF IRAN GOVERNMENT,NOT THOSE IN WAR WITH IRAN.
DEAR DR,MANECK,
YOU HV SAID TT YOU ARE NOT AGAINST THE GOVERNMENT,BUT U ARE AGAINST THE
GENOCIDE.BUT I HV NOT SEEN EVEN A WORD,A PRAY,... FM YOU ABT THE GAZA
PEOPLE,OR THE GENOCIDE IN ROWANDA,SOMALI,ETC.
IF WE ACCEPT TT 200 BAHAIS HV BEEN KILLED IN IRAN[AND IT IS TOO MUCH,AND A
PITY].WITH REGARDS TO THE 300-350 000 POPULATION OF THE IRAN BAHAI COMMUNITY IT
IS HALF A PERCENT.THOSE PEOPLE HV BEEN TRIALED,THEY HV GIVEN
THEIR DEFENDS...DURING 30 YEARS.THEY HV HD OPPORTUNITY TO ASK FORGIVENESS FM
COURTS,...BUT IN GAZA,IN LEBANON,IN ROWANDA,THOUSANDS,AND THOUSANDS OF
INNOCENT PEOPLE WERE KILLED OUT OF THEIR DECISION TO INTERFERE THE WAR.I
BELIEVE THAT HONESTY IS THE BEST POLICY.
CAN YOU TELL ME HOW MANY OF THE IRANIAN BAHAI MARTYRS HV BEEN TEENAGE
GIRLS? THEN YOU WL SEE THAT IT IS A BITTER JOKE TO CALL IT A GENOCIDE.
RE PROHIBITION OF TEACHING IN THE SACRED LAND CAN YOU QUOTE THE TEXT AND/OR
REFERENCE OF BAHAULLAH ?BECAUSE AT THE TIME OF BAHAULLAH THERE WAS NOT THE
COUNTRY OF ISRAEL.BUT IN THE LETTER OF UHJ IT IS REFERRED TO THE RESIDENTS, AND
NATIONALS OF ISRAEL AND ITS AIR BORDER...
WARMEST GREETINGS/ROHANI
--- On Sun, 2/22/09, Susan Maneck <sman...@gmail.com> wrote:
> From: Susan Maneck <sman...@gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: illegality of Bahai organizational activities in Iran
> To: shahramroh...@yahoo.com
> Cc: "Baha'i Studies" <bahai-st@list.jccc.edu>
> Date: Sunday, February 22, 2009, 5:52 PM
> > IT SEEMS THAT YR WORDS ARE FULL OF ANGER TOWARD THE
> IRAN STATE AND THE
> > BAHAIS LIKE ME WHO TRY TO FIND A MIDDLE WAY TO GET OUT
> OF THE CURRENT
> > CRISIS,ACCORDING TO THE TRUE TEACHINGS OF FAITH.
>
> Dear Shahram,
>
> Are you trying to tell us you are a Baha'i? Do you
> believe that
> Baha'u'llah is the Manifestation of God for this
> Age?
>
> My anger is not towards the Iranian State it is towards
> anyone who
> tries to justify genocide.
>
> > -I KNOW THAT THE LIMITATION OF TEACHING BAHAI TO THE
> ISRAEALITES AND IN
> > ISRAEL WAS HELD AFTER THE MEETING BETWEEN THE
> REPRESENTATIVES OF
> > THE GUARDIAN AND THE NEW STATE OF ISRAEL.DO U WANT TO
> IGNORE IT?
>
> I've not seen any evidence of this. If you have some,
> please feel free
> to post it here. As I indicated the decision not to teach
> the Faith in
> Palestine was made by Baha'u'llah, not Shoghi
> Effendi and proceeds the
> establishment of the State of Israel.
>
> > ACCORDING TO IRAN CONSTITUTION PEOPLE ARE FREE TO HAVE
> ANY RELIGION.
> > BUT THEY ARE NOT FREE TO DISCUSS ABOUT THEIR RELIGIONS
>
> Then how about telling us which Baha'i community you
> belong to since
> if what you say is true, you needn't worry that this
> will put you in
> any danger.
>
> But I would like to see specifically where Iranian law
> prohibits
> people from discussing their religion. I know this is what
> Hojjatol-Islam Dur-Najafabadi is saying but I would like to
> see the
> actual law which says people are not free to discuss their
> religion.
> As Abolhassan Banisadr, Iran's first president, says,
> "When having any
> belief is free, how can expressing it be prohibited by
> law?"
>
> SPECIALLY IN
> > UNIVERSITIES,SCHOOLS,GOVERNMENTAL/PUBLIC PLACES,AS IT
> WILL CAUSE
> > DISORDER IN THE DAILY AFFAIRS
>
> First off, Baha'is are not even allowed to *attend*
> universities in
> Iran, whether they discuss their religion there or not. Not
> only that,
> but they are prohibited from holding government jobs, so
> how does this
> even come up?
>
> .IN MANY MANY CASES WHEN THE CONSTITUTION
> > TALKS ABOUT THE RIGHTS AND FREEDOMS,IT CONTINUES THAT
> DETAILS WILL APPEAR IN
> > COMING RULES AND LAWS.
>
> Again, it would help if you would quote what your
> constitution says
> directly here. But are you saying that subsequent laws can
> abrogate
> the Constitution itself? In any case, if subsequent laws
> have been
> made, please provide them. All I have seen are decrees
> issued by the
> 'ulama, not laws made by the state. Or are you saying
> that any 'alim
> can overturn the laws?
>
> >
> > -THE NATIONAL MEMORY OF THE IRANIAN PEOPLE-WE ACCEPT
> IT OR NOT-- REMINDS
> > BABI AND BAHAI MOVEMENTS WITH BLOODSHED,TERROR,ARSON,
> > TREACHEROUS ACTS,ETC.MOST OF THEM CAN NOT TOLERATE
> BAHAIS,
>
> If you are really a Baha'i yourself as you have stated,
> you would know
> that Baha'is have committed *no* acts of bloodshed,
> terrorism, arson,
> etc. within Iran. Yes, there were some Babis who shared the
> same
> attitude towards jihad as Muslims have, but
> Baha'u'llah prohibited
> this entirely.
>
> I think the real reason that most Iranians cannot accept
> Baha'is is
> because the 'ulama have spread so many false stories
> about us, that
> now even those Iranians who are not particularly religious
> believe
> them. I discuss these at my website here:
>
> http://bahai-islam.blogspot.com/2009_01_01_archive.html
>
>
> > -THE JUDICIAL POWER OF IRAN ONCE IN 1983 PROHIBITED
> ANY ORGANISATIONAL
> > AND TEACHING ACTIVITIES OF THE BAHAIS.IT WAS VERY
> CLEAR.AFTER A WHILE STOP
>
> There was a decree issued in 1983 that indicated that
> Baha'is were
> free to practice their religion so long as we didn't
> have an
> organization. The result was we disbanded the National
> Spiritual
> Assembly. But the persecution did not stop. Baha'is
> were still barred
> from attending universities, their pensions were
> expropriated and
> their property confiscated.
>
> BUT WHEN THEY TREE TO ENTER SOME ACTS WHICH ARE POLITICAL
> > AND IN LINE WITH THE OPPOSING COUNTRIES OF IRAN,THEY
> ARE PRESSED BY IRAN
>
> Except Baha'is have no involvement in politics
> whatsoever. If you were
> a Baha'i you would surely know this. Nor are we allied
> with any other
> national government. Besides, Iran is not at war with
> anyone right
> now. Israel and the US are doing a lot of saber-rattling
> about the
> nuclear power plant, but Baha'is have expressed no
> opinion on this
> issue whatsoever.
>
> > WE KNOW THAT MOST OF THE BAHAIS KILLED BY IRAN REV
> STATE,WERE CORRUPTED[LIKE
> > MANY MUSLIM ONES]
> .BUT THE UHJ ,IN ACCORDANCE TO A PLAN,ATTACKED THE IRAN
> > GOVERNMENT IN THOSE YEARS.
>
> Are you seriously trying to tell us that those teenaged
> girls who were
> hung in Shiraz for teaching children's classes were
> corrupt? How so?
> Or are you talking about the man who was stoned recently by
> the
> government who apparently came from a Baha'i family.
> Because the
> Universal House of Justice has said nothing about this
> latter case
> because we don't consider him a Baha'i. It seems
> strange that he
> could be found guilty of incest as the newspaper reported
> however,
> given the fact that for the last several years he had been
> imprisoned
> on drug charges. Do they allow daughters to get that close
> to
> prisoners in Iran?
>
> warmest, Susan
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