OK a few things, First this first paragraph is wrong, it has never been declared unconstitutional, the constitution addresses voting rights, and protection under the law. The Civil rights act of 1964 addresses discrimination in the work place.
Second, I've given my solution over and over again, we have to fix the public education system that forces minorities into poor over crowded schools. We have to educate society and emphasize to all young people about the consequences of not working in school, and create an environment that breeds success in society and not on the streets. When colleges are no longer able to primary education as a reason, then we will be left with actual racial discrimination that is illegal based on the Civil Rights Act. When all people have equal opportunities for education, then we level the playing field in the job market, and again, we fall back to the Civil Rights Act to address discrimination. You have shown three numbers, numbers that are based on national averages. In the US there is no such thing as a National Average. Did those numbers take into account the number of minorities with a college education? No. Did those numbers take in to account the location of the job in relation to the percentage of the population of the area where the company was based? No. The racism in Higher Education and the workplace stems from racism in the public schools and communities. I'm not the one making the argument that whites are being held back in major numbers by affirmative action, I'm sure it happens. However I'm also pretty confident that such a study would be shunned by pro-affirmative action groups, and you would be hard pressed to get that study to even see the light of day. These studies that you mentioned still don't address the root problems. I want to see some studies that take into account education levels. How many people that were more qualified didn't get the job, and can the prove it was because of race. I made some logic arguments earlier, and I will argue that if a minority gets a job because of AA, that chances are a non-minority (read white male) didn't get the job because of AA. I don't question the morality of such a choice. I do question the legality under the Civil Rights Act of 1964. I make no claim that minorities aren't being discriminated against. In fact I have been saying it the entire time. I'm saying that discrimination that starts today is what will really affect people in 20 years when they go to get a job. One thing Americans hate more than anything is being told that they have to do. A law or policy such as Affirmative Action, while it may get somebody into the job; it doesn't stop the other individuals from getting upset with the policy or law, and taking that out on the person. They start assuming that they weren't really good enough to get the job, and that must apply to other minorities, thus furthering the stereotype. Affirmative action is a hack, it isn't a long term fix, it was a short term idea that many thought would be gone by now. The long term fix starts long before people even thing about getting a job. I don't know if you aren't reading what I'm saying, but you always seem to ignore my comments, I've offered a solution, my solution is much harder, will take more time, and take more money. There is a problem, it goes far beyond employment, it goes deeper into drug laws, and other things that occur in minority communities. These things have to be addressed. The entire system is stacked from the beginning in such a way that makes it very hard to get out of it. If you know me, you know I'm exactly the most liberal person there is, however I recognize a problem here, I think we can fix the problem. But it is going to go far beyond what AA can do. We have to fix society. I think AA prevents us from addressing the real problem. > -----Original Message----- > From: Angel Stewart [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2005 12:25 PM > To: CF-Community > Subject: RE: Who Doesn't Discriminate? (WAS: playing the race card) > > "For years many African Americans and Minorites have been discriminated > against in your country and prevented from participating in > the most desirable jobs and universities simply because of their race! > Even when this was declared unconstitutional the practice > still persisted! (Beuchamp and Bowie,1993).African Americans in particular > still face a variety of institutionalised racism and > racially motivated negative actions that their Caucasian counterparts do > not face.Some of the major problems are their being > channeled into minority positions, lack of access to network and mentors, > promotion and advancement difficulties and emotional and > psychological maltreatment (Queralt, 1996)" > > Those exist today.If you are against Affirmative action then what is the > solution? > To say that no solution to that problem is necessary is to agree with > racism and to support it. > > I have shown data and excerpts from real research that has stood up to > peer review and those of the opposition to Affirmative > Action. I have shown factual data that in California when Affirmative > Action in tertiary admissions was removed that the enrollment > of minorities plummeted. The figures are there, the actual people being > discriminated and disenfranchised are there too. Why not > bring some anecdotes from them? > > All studies done to date has shown ongoing racism in the American > workplace and school admissions.It has shown ongoing > discrimination against minorities. > Up to now none of you who espouse that Minorities are no longer > discriminated against, that they are no longer kept out of the best > schools with or without Affirmative Action, that they are not kept out of > top CEO positions, none of you who make these wild claims > have any data to back them up, or point to any research done. All you have > are emotional rants,pretty anecdotes, and your own > cognitive dissonance on the realities of the situation. > > I asked you in a previous post and I'll ask you again: > > What proof do you have that whites are being negatively affected in > appreciable numbers because of Affirmative Action?What proof do > you have that White enrollment in top universities is threatened and on a > sharp decline because of Affirmative Action?What Proof do > you have that Whites are being kept out of top executive positions in > corporate America in significant numbers because of > Affirmative Action? > > What's the proof? Because *you* *think* so? > Because someone says that their wife said that her nephew said...?? > > What proof do you have of any of these wild claims that have been made? > > -Gel ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~| Discover CFTicket - The leading ColdFusion Help Desk and Trouble Ticket application http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=48 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:5:144894 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/5 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:5 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.5 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
