I love it how people who have neither served or have never been to 
combat talk on and on about how "they" would fight such and such 
conflict. Gotta love them armchair quarterbacks.

Vietnam

  Vietnam was one of the first examples of why you do NOT allow 
politicians to fight wars. Best leave these things to the Generals who 
have a bit more experience in these matters.
Gen. Westmorland tried to fight this "police action" blindfolded and 
both hands tied behind his back. The politicians would not let him fight 
it on his terms, which was simple. Carpet bomb the shit out of North 
Vietnam until they give up. He got to do this twice with operations 
Linebacker I and II (each only lasted a few days). But of course the 
politicians caught wind of this and put a stop to it. Also they were not 
legally allowed to enter Laos or Cambodia, although we know now that 
rule was violated covertly numerous times, meanwhile the North 
Vietnamese Army wandered freely through these countries. And how did the 
problem solve itself? Last time I checked there was no longer a 
Communist North and Democratic South Vietnam. In fact, according to 
Wikipidia it is still being ruled by the communists, and if the several 
dozen books I have read on the subject are correct, the original problem 
was to keep North Vietnam and specifically communism OUT of South 
Vietnam. Unless you are referring to the North Vietnam problem solved, 
then yes, you are right, they got what they wanted and we only lost 
10,000 service members in the process.

Desert Storm


Define Time-bound, because if it means what I think it does, then Desert 
Storm was NOT time bound. There was no specific time to send us home. 
The only reason that we were sent home so quickly in the first place is 
because again, politicians stepped in and put a stop to it when video of 
the carnage on Highway 1 was shown on TV. Trust me, we were poised and 
ready to go to Baghdad and were sorely disappointed when they ordered us 
to turn South instead and prepare to come home.

Iraq 2


Although there have yet to be any WMD's to be found (and I doubt there 
ever will be), I believe that regime change was necessary. Saddam was a 
constant thorn in our side and he needed to be taken out.
And I believe that we have defined some goals. Remove Saddam from power 
and create a safe and democratic Iraq with a LEGALLY elected 
government.(oh wait, that's right, Saddam's elections were legal, his 
was usually the only name on the ballot, noting illegal about that). 
That seems specific enough to me. Help Iraq be able to govern itself, 
help create a strong and capable military, help create a strong and 
reliable police force. If these are not specific goals, then please tell 
me what is.
So since we have specific goals, we can measure our progress on these 
goals. Progress is slow, sure, the none the less, progress is being 
made. Check out today's NY Times. There are a couple of stories on this 
progress. Here, I will help you out:
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2007/11/19/world/middleeast/20071120_BUILDUP_OVERVIEW.html
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/20/world/middleeast/20surge.html?_r=1&ref=world&oref=slogin

And I specifically pointed you to the NYT because we all know that if I 
were to steer you to the only fair and balanced news service you would 
not believe it, so I point you to the liberal darling of news papers.
So now that we have specific goals, and they are measurable, I believe 
that these goals can be attained, no? Again refer to the two stories 
above to see that we are slowly attaining these goals.
And once these goals are attained, then of course we can start to go 
home, so now this is also releasable, no?
But since none of us are clairvoyant, we cannot predict when it is going 
to be over, so no, it cannot be time-bound (unless you are a liberal or 
one of those liberals in conservatives clothing bent on surrendering).

And you forgot about Somalia, or are skirmishes lost by the liberal 
darlings of the day taboo for these conversations?

What say you?

Bruce


Gruss Gott wrote:
> Hey, cool challenge.  Well, of course it's a case-by-case basis but
> here's a good starting point for me:  Any direct attack of US
> civilians or unprovoked attack of the US military anywhere in the
> World.  Now it gets complicated: who, what, when, where, and how to
> attack?
>
>
>   

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