On Sun, Aug 29, 2010 at 4:51 PM, Jerry Barnes wrote: > > "Communism intentionally kills people?" > > Den, I didn't say that. In fact, later on, I say communism doesn't kill > people. I said it seems to lend itself to leaders who commit mass > exterminations on a scale never seen before in mankind.
My initial response was addressing the idea that there's something inherently wrong with the logic of communism. My point is that it's not communism, it's our "nature". > National Socialist Hitler's genocide of 6 million Jews, > Stalin's forced starvation of 6 to 7 million Ukrainians. > Stalin's great purge of the communist party which killed between 700k and > 1.5 million. > Che's hand in killing over 10,000 dissidents in Cuba in the 1960's. > Mao's Great Leap forward which killed 20+ million people > Khmer Rouge killing 2 million in 4 years. > > I used conservative numbers for some of these and left out some numbers. > For Stalin, the low end of all his solutions was 20 millions. The high end > is 50+. Remember that Stalin's solution to disagreement was 7 grams of > lead. Mao is credited with 50+ million at the high end. > I'm saying that I don't see this as a reflection on/of communism. Or the "ideal" of communism, if you prefer. > "Offing folk 'cause they be different is an old, old idea. Probably rooted > in evolution." > > I won't deny that it has happened in all era's under all types of > government. It has been taken to a new level under the socialist/communist > banner. Correlation does not equal causation. :) > "Again, nothing special about communism. Saying communism is responsible is > like saying 'that can't happen here', and let me be the first to tell you: > It can." > > Ahh, but there is something special about socialism and communism. The > number of atrocities committed under socialist/communist government dwarfs > the number of other atrocities committed in the 20th century. > > Check this site out: http://users.erols.com/mwhite28/warstat1.htm Socialism and communism are not one and the same. Civil Wars tend to be pretty bloody... do you think that rebellion is a failed ideology? > > "There were Native American tribes that were pretty close to communist." > > Some where. They seemed to have it down better than modern governments. That was a theme I enjoyed from "the Celestine Prophesy"-- the idea that we're supposed to learn from those Native American Commies who "pulled it off", so to speak. > " The Nazis -- poster-child for ethnic cleansing/genocide -- were what > again?" > > The National Socialist. Yet Hitler wasn't fond of Communism. What's the deal with that? > "You're honestly trying to say that communism is 'special'?" > > Yes. Special in a bad way. Meh. We're all unique. (I love the above sentence. It's like "this sentence is false".) > "And FWIW, Communism is to Conservative, as Socialism is to Liberal. ;)p" > > Den, I could follow you up to this point. You've gone off the reservation > here. Just a silly way of saying that Communism and Socialism aren't interchangeable. I forget myself sometimes, don't sweat it. :) > > "Maybe consolidating power leads to easy killing? Bah. I hold ourselves > accountable." > > Now, you're back. Yes. Consolidating power can lead to easy killing. When > a select few hold the reigns, they can do whatever they want unchecked. In > the socialistic/communist governments of the 20th century, that's what was > always present. A small council controlling the whole population. 6 of one, half dozen of another. The King fucks up too much, his head's roll'n in the street. The King is dead, long live the King. The people hold the power, even if they don't like to think about it much. > I don't hold ourselves accountable because we weren't on the committees > making the decisions. Eh. Responsibility is an odd deal. How long is the chain? If I buy shoes from someplace that buys shoes from someplace that buys shoes from sweat shops... Do I give a damn? I hear a lot of micro-chip materials come from places where people are horribly exploited. Or something like that. :Den -- Ignorance is the softest pillow on which a man can rest his head ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology-Michael-Dinowitz/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-community/message.cfm/messageid:326230 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-community/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-community/unsubscribe.cfm
