On Tue, Dec 11, 2012 at 1:03 PM, Judah McAuley <ju...@wiredotter.com> wrote:
> What do you think rule #1 of real world economics is then? I'm curious. > I guess that would vary depending on what your world view is. I don't think identifying this would serve any real purpose in this debate, really. > Free markets, in the classical sense, require free market actors. All the > requirements I listed are text book definitions. That's why the classical > theoretical notion of the free market is not applicable to the real world. The require actors. But the market is a system to manage these actors based on their behaviors and the choices they make. There is no requirement that actors be perfect in any way. In fact, I would argue that the entire point of a Free Market is to naturally and efficiently manage imperfect, unpredictable and widely divergent decisions and desires. > The rules have to change as the constraints change if you want something > like an equivalent outcome. That's fundamental systems theory. > There is a certain point where central control and planning breaks dow catastrophically. I am not comparing your point of view to the communist Soviet Union, but that is a good example of a radical failure of a system that sought out to centrally control constraints and outcomes. In a free market, there is no need to centrally control them, since they work themselves out on their own. > You are making a presumption about the behavior of a Free(er) Market that > is not born out by either theory or practice as far as I can tell. > On this we clearly disagree. > Agreed. That was my point. They are complex and nuanced, however. It > isn't the simple "Invisible Hand of the Market" construction that people > seem to learn in high school about supply and demand and then presume that > it > applies to everything in a capitalist economy. > Most things in a textbook differ in reality. There is no pure implementation, but this does not invalidate the principles. > Curious, I see a lot of people failing and, oddly enough, most of them are > poor. The systems in place seem to protect one class a lot more than > others. > These are also the class of people most coddled, controlled, guided, and given the fewest choices. I am not saying that the root of every problem in society can be found here, but you have to admit that at least some of the problems of the poor stem from missing out on some of the decision making that are learned by failing on your own and picking yourself back up again. Just like overly protecting a child robs them of the experience of making their own mistakes, doing so with adults gives similar outcomes. That whole thing is really a side conversation and much less about unions. But with or without unions, I fully expect some people to make really bad decisions. But that's how people learn. Fundamentally, however, I believe that systems should serve the people > and not the other way around. They should protect the most vulnerable and > encourage everyone to improve their own lives and communities. > This can be done with or without unions and with or without a free market. Many systems try and treat employees like commodities. > Which? Are any competitive and open? > However, even if you consider the job to be the commodity, it still fails. > They do not satisfy the criteria to be considered commodities. > I don't want to get tagled up in vocabulary here. Either the person is choosing the job or the job is choosing the person. I know which seems more reasonable to me. > There is great economic theory out there about employment and wages and > incentives. I'd love to learn even more than what I do now, it's a > fascinating and evolving field. It isn't simple, though. And it isn't > classic free market theory. I am not closed to new ideas. -Cameron ... ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-community/message.cfm/messageid:359069 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-community/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-community/unsubscribe.cfm
