I've been reading this thread and have been resisting
to reply but am now. This thread comes up every now
and then.
The bottom line is all vendors have their issues and
software problems. No single vendor is perfect. It's
like a catchup game in a way. Someone comes out with
something first then the competitor comes out with
something slightly better. In this case, Juniper m160
can have 8 OC-192 cards and Cisco 120xx can have 9.
Cisco beat them by and also has more bandwidth across
the backplane. Until someone else comes out with a
better product. Cycle repeats... and repeats.
I haven't looked at the dimensions of the Cisco 120xxx
series closely but you can fit 2 M160s in a rack which
gives you 16 OC-192s per rack. I'm not sure if 2 Cisco
120xx's can fit in one rack offhand. Port density per
rack is why Juniper is getting customers as well.
Personally, I work for a multi-vendor shop and hold
stock in both companies and am not bias to any vendor.
More comments inline...
--- Net Bum <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Roger (I am assuming the same Roger from Securabyte
> Group),
>
> >I've seen many tests as where the Juniper routers
> experience a lot of
> >packet
> >loss and a decrease in performance and reliability
> when the node is fully
> >configured with a complete set of cards.
This is same for other vendors including the ones
discussed in this thread. It all depends on the router
model, architecture, etc. Each box has it's limits.
Typically, the specs will say you can put x cards in a
chassis and typically if you fully load the chassis
and push the full bandwidth that each interface can
handle then you are exceeding the bandwidth of the
backplane. In most situations (non core) customers
don't push full loads across all interfaces
constantly.
Example. Let's say you have a module with 4 sync
interfaces on it. Each interface can handle 2meg but
the entire module can handle 6meg total. 2*4 = 8meg.
So, you can put 3 interfaces at full speed or 2 at
2meg and 2 at 1 meg.
> Each time a card is removed or
> >added, there is downtime with traffic interruptions
> with the Juniper router trying to "catch up" with
> the changes.
That happens with equipment from every vendor. If you
pull a card out, it's going to cause your routing
tables to re-converge and will effect connectivity
throughout the network for a moment or two depending
on the size of the network. The effects vary from
product to product and depend on what protocols are
running. Also depends on the software... some software
gets flaky if you hot swap cards and don't recover
pretty which can lead to problems later at unknown
times.
> Do you have a URL to these tests? Or is this again,
> is this "what Cisco
> says?"
>
> > If you talk with the Engineers at
> >Juniper, they will tell you that scalability is
> their biggest problem with
> >their M series routers. You can run with a few,
> but they won't scale and
> >you're not able to run a huge network with them
> without running into major
> >problems.
>
> That sounds fishy....Why would Juniper Engineers say
> that their products
> won't scale? Sounds more like something a
> competitor would say.
>
> >It's very much true that Juniper owns 30% of the
> Enterprise market share >and
>
> You a little behind here. That was the Dell'Oro
> Group's estimates for third quarter of last year.
> Their latest estimates say it's 34% of the Core
> (NOT Enterprise).
>
>
http://www.thestreet.com/_yahoo/tech/telecom/1314412.html
>
> >I know tons of loyal Cisco
> >powered ISPs were waiting for this breakthrough as
> well.
>
> Tons? Which ISPs are you refering to? I tend to
> follow Howard B.'s belief
> that most ISPs (in the core) use more than one
> vendor. I talked to an
> install engineer at uunet two weeks ago when I
> brought up a T1 for a remote
> office. I had a Cisco 2600 series on my side and I
> asked him what he had on
> his side. He said (as if I wouldn't know :-), "A
> big router, it's a Cisco
> 12000 series." Then I asked him, "Do you use any
> Juniper stuff?" He said,
> "Yes, we use them in our core. They are behind the
> 12000's."
>
> >But I have to admit, Juniper does make some good
> stuff too (Lots of
> >ex-Cisco employees migrated over to Juniper to work
> there).
> The most important asset to a technology company is
> their intellectual
> assets. If their top employees (guys who wrote the
> BGP, OSPF, MPLS, ISIS,
> etc. code) leave, they won't be able to replace
> them.
>
> >But I'm partial to Cisco and their equipment
>
> I can understand that. Many people on this list
> have vested interest in
> Cisco (both hardware and intellectual). It would be
> terrible if our Cisco
> skills were no longer marketable....but I don't
> think this will ever happen.
> Cisco still dominates the Enterprise. Knowing how
> to configure Cisco
> products will land you a nice paying job. Knowing
> Juniper products will
> land you a nicer paying job. Knowing both Cisco and
> Juniper will land you
> an even nicer paying job :-)
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