fyi - "I know a few CCIEs that I would let touch..." should have been "...
that I wouldn't let touch.."
-Brad
""Brad Ellis"" wrote in message
[EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Chuck,
>
> Hi! Don't get me wrong, Im not saying CCIE's sh*t don't stink!!! I know
a
> few CCIEs that I would let touch my network. However, I consider that the
> EXCEPTION and not the RULE. As a general rule of thumb, I consider the
CCIE
> level of knowledge and applicable skills to be higher than "minimal
> competence." I suppose it really depends on your definition of "minimal
> competence." I define minimal competence as someone who has a fundamental
> understanding of networking with a small amount of hands-on experience. I
> would generally classify a CCIE to have a more in-depth understanding of
> networking fundamentals and quite a bit more hands-on experience than
> someone with minimal competence.
>
> Mr. Seltzer's writing says that the average CCIE is minimally competent in
> the product (I'd guess he was referring to Cisco). I think that's like
> saying NBA basketball players are minimally competent basketball players.
> To Michael Jordan that's probably true, but Im sure the general public
would
> disagree. I suppose it really comes down to your definition of "minimal
> competence." I have a great deal of respect for the majority of other
> CCIE's who I have come in contact with and consider calling them minimally
> competent to be an insult.
>
> -Brad Ellis
> CCIE#5796
>
> ""Chuck Larrieu"" wrote in message
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > like everything else in this business, the answer is "it depends".
> >
> > sorry folks, but CCIE's are not gods who walk among us.
> >
> > I personally know several CCIE's who are top notch and deserving of
every
> > dollar they get and every contract they land.
> >
> > I also personally know a couple who couldn't tell you how a packet gets
> from
> > one interface to another in a router.
> >
> > all the CCIE certification proves is that you have passed Cisco's lab
> test.
> > It does not prove one way or another whether you know jack about
> networking.
> > I suggest that there is a percentage of the 2000 or so who have attained
> the
> > cert since last year who did so only because they successfully memorized
> > enough scenario configurations that they were able to luck their way
> through
> > when their lab closely resembled one of those scenarios they memorized.
> >
> > I personally know several folks who passed over the last 18 months whose
> > only hands on experience was in their practice labs. Of these, all were
> > pretty sharp dudes, by the way.
> >
> > From personal experience I can tell you that I saw absolutely nothing in
> my
> > lab that made me wish I'd spent more time reading RFC's, or Comer, or
any
> of
> > the other great books of the networking world. I saw plenty that made me
> > wish I'd spent more time on certain practice materials readily available
> ( I
> > refer to the commercially available products. please do not contact me
for
> > names and sources )
> >
> > whenever this topic comes up, I see the same kinds of thought processes
as
> I
> > used to see in the days when people asked what good an English degree
did
> > you in the job market. It isn't the degree. it's the intelligence behind
> it.
> >
> > hate to say it, kids, but the CCIE has no clothes. Experience is what
> really
> > matters. the certification to many is just a ticket, just the beginning.
> to
> > those with a lot of experience, it is merely a validation of the skill
> set.
> > in and of itself it is like any other piece of paper - representative of
> > something, but perhaps not representative of what you may think.
> >
> > Chuck
> > back to the pod - got lots to do before December 3
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of
> > Don Claybrook
> > Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2001 11:32 AM
> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Subject: One Journalist's Opinion of CCIE [7:18843]
> >
> >
> > I just ran across this one in Fortune Small Business. Below is an
> excerpt.
> > The journalist (Larry Seltzer) is attempting to give tips on how to hire
> > technical consultants to do work for your small business. He's talking
> > about
> > how certifications aren't as important as one might think:
> >
> > "When looking for qualified help, don't read too much into a
consultant's
> > alphabet soup of certifications. They don't signify ability, just as my
> > political science degree doesn't make me your next President. Terms like
> > CCIE
> > (Cisco Certified Internetwork Expert) indicate only successful
completion
> of
> > the program and minimal competence in the product."
> >
> > I wish I knew this guy's email address. Anyway, I thought the group
might
> > get
> > a kick out of it. Here's the link in case you want to read the whole
> thing:
> > http://netbusiness.netscape.com/fsb/features/sp_f_090601_1.psp
> >
> > Don Claybrook
> > CCNP, CCDP (but not yet up to the minimal competence level of CCIE)
Message Posted at:
http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7&i=18996&t=18843
--------------------------------------------------
FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html
Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
