Just some food for thought...I wonder how many people on this list would be
getting this upset if the journalist had used the MCSE certification as an
example and not the CCIE? :-)
Don't get me wrong...I agree with most of the people's opinions expressed
thus far and that is that this journalist most likely does not understand
what goes into obtaining a CCIE and he probably pulled that cert from his
morning read through the want ads, but I still think it is an interesting
question. How many people would be as upset if he had used MCSE as the
example.
Ok. I am ducking for cover now. Hope everyone has a nice weekend!
Heather
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Priscilla Oppenheimer [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Friday, September 07, 2001 1:51 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: One Journalist's Opinion of CCIE [7:18843]
>
> Bottom line, IMHO: the journalist didn't know a thing about CCIE and
> assumed it is similar to other certs. I bet he didn't even know that it
> requires a hands-on lab. Notice that he also claims to be able to talk to
> car mechanics and plumbers. I bet they just love him! He's probably one of
>
> those guys who mucks everything up and then calls the plumber.
>
> The REAL bottom line: We should just ignore his silly article. ;-)
>
> Priscilla
>
> At 12:09 PM 9/7/01, Brad Ellis wrote:
> >Chuck,
> >
> >Hi! Don't get me wrong, Im not saying CCIE's sh*t don't stink!!! I know
> a
> >few CCIEs that I would let touch my network. However, I consider that
> the
> >EXCEPTION and not the RULE. As a general rule of thumb, I consider the
> CCIE
> >level of knowledge and applicable skills to be higher than "minimal
> >competence." I suppose it really depends on your definition of "minimal
> >competence." I define minimal competence as someone who has a
> fundamental
> >understanding of networking with a small amount of hands-on experience.
> I
> >would generally classify a CCIE to have a more in-depth understanding of
> >networking fundamentals and quite a bit more hands-on experience than
> >someone with minimal competence.
> >
> >Mr. Seltzer's writing says that the average CCIE is minimally competent
> in
> >the product (I'd guess he was referring to Cisco). I think that's like
> >saying NBA basketball players are minimally competent basketball players.
> >To Michael Jordan that's probably true, but Im sure the general public
> would
> >disagree. I suppose it really comes down to your definition of "minimal
> >competence." I have a great deal of respect for the majority of other
> >CCIE's who I have come in contact with and consider calling them
> minimally
> >competent to be an insult.
> >
> >-Brad Ellis
> >CCIE#5796
> >
> >""Chuck Larrieu"" wrote in message
> >[EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > like everything else in this business, the answer is "it depends".
> > >
> > > sorry folks, but CCIE's are not gods who walk among us.
> > >
> > > I personally know several CCIE's who are top notch and deserving of
> every
> > > dollar they get and every contract they land.
> > >
> > > I also personally know a couple who couldn't tell you how a packet
> gets
> >from
> > > one interface to another in a router.
> > >
> > > all the CCIE certification proves is that you have passed Cisco's lab
> >test.
> > > It does not prove one way or another whether you know jack about
> >networking.
> > > I suggest that there is a percentage of the 2000 or so who have
> attained
> >the
> > > cert since last year who did so only because they successfully
> memorized
> > > enough scenario configurations that they were able to luck their way
> >through
> > > when their lab closely resembled one of those scenarios they
> memorized.
> > >
> > > I personally know several folks who passed over the last 18 months
> whose
> > > only hands on experience was in their practice labs. Of these, all
> were
> > > pretty sharp dudes, by the way.
> > >
> > > From personal experience I can tell you that I saw absolutely nothing
> in
> >my
> > > lab that made me wish I'd spent more time reading RFC's, or Comer, or
> any
> >of
> > > the other great books of the networking world. I saw plenty that made
> me
> > > wish I'd spent more time on certain practice materials readily
> available
> >( I
> > > refer to the commercially available products. please do not contact me
> for
> > > names and sources )
> > >
> > > whenever this topic comes up, I see the same kinds of thought
> processes
> as
> >I
> > > used to see in the days when people asked what good an English degree
> did
> > > you in the job market. It isn't the degree. it's the intelligence
> behind
> >it.
> > >
> > > hate to say it, kids, but the CCIE has no clothes. Experience is what
> >really
> > > matters. the certification to many is just a ticket, just the
> beginning.
> >to
> > > those with a lot of experience, it is merely a validation of the skill
> >set.
> > > in and of itself it is like any other piece of paper - representative
> of
> > > something, but perhaps not representative of what you may think.
> > >
> > > Chuck
> > > back to the pod - got lots to do before December 3
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of
> > > Don Claybrook
> > > Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2001 11:32 AM
> > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > Subject: One Journalist's Opinion of CCIE [7:18843]
> > >
> > >
> > > I just ran across this one in Fortune Small Business. Below is an
> >excerpt.
> > > The journalist (Larry Seltzer) is attempting to give tips on how to
> hire
> > > technical consultants to do work for your small business. He's
> talking
> > > about
> > > how certifications aren't as important as one might think:
> > >
> > > "When looking for qualified help, don't read too much into a
> consultant's
> > > alphabet soup of certifications. They don't signify ability, just as
> my
> > > political science degree doesn't make me your next President. Terms
> like
> > > CCIE
> > > (Cisco Certified Internetwork Expert) indicate only successful
> completion
> >of
> > > the program and minimal competence in the product."
> > >
> > > I wish I knew this guy's email address. Anyway, I thought the group
> might
> > > get
> > > a kick out of it. Here's the link in case you want to read the whole
> >thing:
> > > http://netbusiness.netscape.com/fsb/features/sp_f_090601_1.psp
> > >
> > > Don Claybrook
> > > CCNP, CCDP (but not yet up to the minimal competence level of CCIE)
> ________________________
>
> Priscilla Oppenheimer
> http://www.priscilla.com
Message Posted at:
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