This reminds me of a jury selection process I went through some time back.
It was rape case against a Doctor. The defense counsel were asking about 25
of us questions trying to pare us down into a 14 person jury. 12 members two
alternates.
The defense asked us all to raise our hands if we had any work experience
with the medical field. A few people did. The first question the defense
counsel asked a perspective juror who had raised their hand was... "Have you
ever had any prejudice for any doctor?" The juror answered yes. The second
question... "what caused that perjudice"? I didn't like one Doctor because
they didn't treat their patients right. Well as a look of disgust passed
over the defense lawyer the judge jumped in and asked... "what do you do in
the medical field?" I am a nurses assistant. Well there was an audible thud.
The judge proceeded to go on a five minute tiraid undressing that person,
summarizing that they were in no position to evaluate a Doctors competancy
because they did not receive the proper training and that their prejudice
was based solely on a personal bias. The judge then turned to the rest of us
saying that we were excused, stating that we were tainted because of the
personal bais that was expressed.
Life lesson; people like Brad (CCIE's) have the right to determine and
uphold the competency of CCIE's because, quess what, they're in the club,
we're not. Cadets in training, wannabees, and fruitcakes can only speculate.
Difference between some of us and the Larry's of the world, we will be
joining that club then we can talk about what a CCIE should and shouldn't be
because we are a CCIE and have undergone the training and became certified.
That juvenile ripost "takes one to know one" aint a bad way to go.
Don
PS Brad Cool, Larry Smack!!! that's the old Don
PSS That nurses aid is my hero they got me out of jury duty, which would of
had me tied up for twenty two days. It was a highly publisized case in the
media. Oh, and he went down.
PSSS Ten hour work day, three hour lab action tonight and its friday. I
changed my mind Larry is big Smack!!!!
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brad Ellis"
To:
Sent: Friday, September 07, 2001 9:09 AM
Subject: Re: One Journalist's Opinion of CCIE [7:18843]
> Chuck,
>
> Hi! Don't get me wrong, Im not saying CCIE's sh*t don't stink!!! I know
a
> few CCIEs that I would let touch my network. However, I consider that the
> EXCEPTION and not the RULE. As a general rule of thumb, I consider the
CCIE
> level of knowledge and applicable skills to be higher than "minimal
> competence." I suppose it really depends on your definition of "minimal
> competence." I define minimal competence as someone who has a fundamental
> understanding of networking with a small amount of hands-on experience. I
> would generally classify a CCIE to have a more in-depth understanding of
> networking fundamentals and quite a bit more hands-on experience than
> someone with minimal competence.
>
> Mr. Seltzer's writing says that the average CCIE is minimally competent in
> the product (I'd guess he was referring to Cisco). I think that's like
> saying NBA basketball players are minimally competent basketball players.
> To Michael Jordan that's probably true, but Im sure the general public
would
> disagree. I suppose it really comes down to your definition of "minimal
> competence." I have a great deal of respect for the majority of other
> CCIE's who I have come in contact with and consider calling them minimally
> competent to be an insult.
>
> -Brad Ellis
> CCIE#5796
>
> ""Chuck Larrieu"" wrote in message
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > like everything else in this business, the answer is "it depends".
> >
> > sorry folks, but CCIE's are not gods who walk among us.
> >
> > I personally know several CCIE's who are top notch and deserving of
every
> > dollar they get and every contract they land.
> >
> > I also personally know a couple who couldn't tell you how a packet gets
> from
> > one interface to another in a router.
> >
> > all the CCIE certification proves is that you have passed Cisco's lab
> test.
> > It does not prove one way or another whether you know jack about
> networking.
> > I suggest that there is a percentage of the 2000 or so who have attained
> the
> > cert since last year who did so only because they successfully memorized
> > enough scenario configurations that they were able to luck their way
> through
> > when their lab closely resembled one of those scenarios they memorized.
> >
> > I personally know several folks who passed over the last 18 months whose
> > only hands on experience was in their practice labs. Of these, all were
> > pretty sharp dudes, by the way.
> >
> > From personal experience I can tell you that I saw absolutely nothing in
> my
> > lab that made me wish I'd spent more time reading RFC's, or Comer, or
any
> of
> > the other great books of the networking world. I saw plenty that made me
> > wish I'd spent more time on certain practice materials readily available
> ( I
> > refer to the commercially available products. please do not contact me
for
> > names and sources )
> >
> > whenever this topic comes up, I see the same kinds of thought processes
as
> I
> > used to see in the days when people asked what good an English degree
did
> > you in the job market. It isn't the degree. it's the intelligence behind
> it.
> >
> > hate to say it, kids, but the CCIE has no clothes. Experience is what
> really
> > matters. the certification to many is just a ticket, just the beginning.
> to
> > those with a lot of experience, it is merely a validation of the skill
> set.
> > in and of itself it is like any other piece of paper - representative of
> > something, but perhaps not representative of what you may think.
> >
> > Chuck
> > back to the pod - got lots to do before December 3
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of
> > Don Claybrook
> > Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2001 11:32 AM
> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Subject: One Journalist's Opinion of CCIE [7:18843]
> >
> >
> > I just ran across this one in Fortune Small Business. Below is an
> excerpt.
> > The journalist (Larry Seltzer) is attempting to give tips on how to hire
> > technical consultants to do work for your small business. He's talking
> > about
> > how certifications aren't as important as one might think:
> >
> > "When looking for qualified help, don't read too much into a
consultant's
> > alphabet soup of certifications. They don't signify ability, just as my
> > political science degree doesn't make me your next President. Terms like
> > CCIE
> > (Cisco Certified Internetwork Expert) indicate only successful
completion
> of
> > the program and minimal competence in the product."
> >
> > I wish I knew this guy's email address. Anyway, I thought the group
might
> > get
> > a kick out of it. Here's the link in case you want to read the whole
> thing:
> > http://netbusiness.netscape.com/fsb/features/sp_f_090601_1.psp
> >
> > Don Claybrook
> > CCNP, CCDP (but not yet up to the minimal competence level of CCIE)
Message Posted at:
http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7&i=19043&t=18843
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