We are touching several subjects that every now and then are discussed on this and other lists.
There are many things to consider: When getting a job and you have a CCNP cert, I would assume that most companies will expect you to live up to that cert, and fire you if you're just "all paper - no brains". Many applicants put so much stuff on their resume that has no real life truth in it. I remember when I was interviewing for an assistant, and wanted someone (at that time) with Novell experience and preferable a CNA or better, and this guy came in and said that he had paid and attended all CNE courses (5 I believe) which would have costed him more than $10K - but when he found out that he had to pay for the exams themself, he had refused to take them. Yeah right! Who's gonna pay $10K+ for training but not an additional $500.- to pass and get the cert??? After that interview, I made a paper with 10 simple questions from making a CAT5 cable, to backing up the Novell NetWare 3.1x bindery, to creating setup diskettes for NT 4.0 installation. Most of the applicants only got about half of them right, and one guy did not get any of them right, but was sitting with a BIG smile throughout the whole interview. Next, salary surveys. I often wonder what happens with salary and certs. - When people stay in the same job and achieve a new cert, will they get a raise automatically, by request, or not a chance? - When people apply for a new job, will the salary match their certs or only the ones the position need them to have? Also, some people have lost their lust of educating themselves and/or providing service they can be proud of. Someone can have been in a job for 20 years, but does not have any pride in doing a good job, so they are standing still so to speak. Personally, I like to be proud of putting my name on what I have achived, so people can look at the job I've done and say "that guy did a good job here". That is probably why my company have given me three extremly good raises and a very good bonus in the less than two years I've been working for them. So, salary surveys... - Well, I like to read them to get a feel for what a guy like me with 14 years of professional programming, system & network administration, and web development/administration gets, and then compare it to where I am salary wise. One thing everyone should remember is that salary is not the only thing to consider. You can get a high salary, but be travelling 70% of the time, working 90 hours a week, and be in an environment with a populated department below the amount of tasks, forcing you to eat antacid tablets like candy. Anyway, this was just my 00000010 cents. Have fun out there... Ole ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Ole Drews Jensen Systems Network Manager CCNP, MCSE, MCP+I RWR Enterprises, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ http://www.RouterChief.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ NEED A JOB ??? http://www.oledrews.com/job ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ -----Original Message----- From: Mark Odette II [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2001 9:55 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: Salary Expectations/CCNP's!!!!!!!!! [7:25805] >>>>>>>I just get tired of people claiming > to be "networkers" and they don't even know how to use the ultimate resource > of networkers... the internet... they just post questions here without doing > ANY research on their own... >>>>>>>>>>> So do I interpret this correctly to say that the ONLY way you can be a "Networker" is that you HAVE to either PAY for a BS Salary Survey (because we all know the "Free" ones are nothing but teasers to get you to buy the real deal) or find some other STATIC content that is not necessarily accurate.... I thought the term "Networking" in a social context was to interact with many others to find out any answer to a question you may have.... It's not like my Video Display or Printer can say, "Yo Mark, check out what I found... Google says the word on Salaries for your kind of job of interest is roughly BLAH BLAH BLAH annually!". Some people need to just take a chill pill just because someone asks "Hey, you guys and gals know what the avg. pay seems to be going for with such-n-such job these days.... I'd really like to get some real-time fellow colleague info on this, rather than depending on a silly survey that was generated 9+ months ago". Get the Point! :) -M -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Dennis Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2001 4:54 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Salary Expectations/CCNP's!!!!!!!!! [7:25805] You are indeed correct. Posting questions here is a way of finding information on the internet. It's the lazy persons way! Why take an hour or two to look something up on your own when you can post a question here in one minute and have someone else provide the answer? The ability to research a problem and identify possible solultions on ones own is a critical skill for networkers. Do you think a CCIE just posts a question here every time they come across something they are not familiar with? I don't think so! If you want to encourage people to post questions here without doing research, that's up to you but you're not doing them a favor. All you're teaching them is when confronted with a problem... ASK SOMEONE ELSE! -- -=Repy to group only... no personal=- ""Marshal Schoener"" wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... > I can be mean sometimes can't I ;-)... I just get tired of people claiming > to be "networkers" and they don't even know how to use the ultimate resource > of networkers... the internet... they just post questions here without doing > ANY research on their own... > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > Last I checked, email was just another tool used by people > with_Internet_access! > Therefore, this group is just another tool used by people with Internet > access. > > Posting a question to this group, in my opinion, is not much different than > any other way of looking things up on the Internet. > Actually, there is 1 difference. You will be getting the info from many > good sources, and people can then have an open dialog about the issue, which > in turn helps everyone ;) > > Regards, Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7&i=26277&t=25805 -------------------------------------------------- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
