> I do not agree with John Newman that the Java standard library > should be the Clojure standard library. >
I'm not saying that. I'm saying that: 1) Requiring Java's standard library on every system is unfortunate enough -- it's too big for some of the smaller devices coming out now. And, 2) One way to maintain Clojure's flexibility would be if it were like what the kernel is to a Linux distribution. What if every distribution had to use the same standard set of packages? The Linux ecosystem is much richer today because the kernel can develop somewhat independently of the applications that target it. Eventually, clojure-contrib will be much much larger than clojure the language. If clojure-contrib is Clojure's "standard", most of the work involved in developing "Clojure 2.0" won't be in core but in hammering on contrib. If that's what people want then great. It just seems like a less flexible solution to me. One way to compensate for a lack of "batteries included" might be a powerful, agnostic library management solution, which allows for different contrib libraries, VMs, or architectures, but that definitely seems like a 2.0 feature. On Sat, Apr 18, 2009 at 1:51 AM, Tom Faulhaber <tomfaulha...@gmail.com>wrote: > > Tom's 2 cents: > > I think Clojure is basically ready to go to 1.0. I like the idea of > having a book about Clojure 1.0 go hand in hand with the release. > > While I agree that the library management problem is too hard for a > 1.0 release (and also largely separable), it would be nice to see the > software version number (e.g. 1.0.0) and the subversion number (e.g. > r1352) in the built clojure.jar somewhere that's easily accessible to > tools that are trying to do library management. My solution to this > would probably just be to generate a couple of (def *clojure-version- > number* "1.0.0") things as part of the build. Do any Java/Maven heads > have more sophisticated ideas that we should consider here? I've just > started hacking on some svn manipulation stuff (and a little bit of > jar manipulation) in the process of doing my contrib autodoc robot, so > I'd be happy to help here too. > > While I agree that "what is clojure.contrib?" is a pretty big issue, I > think we could leave it a little fuzzy for a while longer. One thing > we should probably do is do a real comparison of how we stack up > against python's "batteries included" model and see how we need to > address that. (To my mind, the python library has always felt very ad > hoc.) I do not agree with John Newman that the Java standard library > should be the Clojure standard library. There's enough that's > different in Clojure that I think we do want some of our own ways to > approach things. I think there's also space for some great documents > (& screencasts, etc.) that show how to leverage parts of the Java > library to do cool things in Clojure. (Rich's demo of building swing > apps in Clojure comes to mind.) > > I'd also like to see a little more focus on the perl/python/ruby > equivalence from a newbie perspective. That is, more clarity around > startup, script execution (including having an equivalent to python's > "if __name__ == '__main__':" construct), class path management, etc. > I know that this is one area where being in the JVM ecosystem makes > our life worse rather than better, but approaching Clojure is still a > bit daunting compared to these other languages. > > You can count me among the git fanboys, but I can't get too worked up > about moving off google code right now (and that would be necessary if > we switched to git). (Aside to Matt Revelle: You can use git-svn on > the client side (and I do) but that provides only a local solution, so > it isn't a magic bullet.) > > Really, we all know that 1.0 means 1.0. Clojure will be much further > along than most other languages at their 1.0 point, so I wouldn't > stress over it too much. > > I think that might have been 6 cents worth :-). > > Tom > > > > > -- John --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Clojure" group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
