On 8 May 2004, at 00:56, Stephen Colebourne wrote:
From: "Martin Cooper" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>Would you prefer that the components that are "foisting" logging on youdidno logging? Or would you prefer that they each implemented their ownversionof Commons Logging instead?Its not something I've looked into, or especially want to. Just consider me
unconvinced as to why I need a logging jar when its not the actual
functionality (beanutils/digester etc.) I'm trying to obtain. (logging is a
whole other thread, lets not go there ;-)
funnily enough, if commons logging was to be created again, i'd (with hindsight) consider something along those lines. the bridging implementations would be in a separate, optional jar and the two classes required in the public logging API would be copied over into each component (as part of the build). if the implementation jar is not present, error and fatal levels (only) would log to system.err. those users wanting logging would have to grab and drop in the implementation jar.
I'm in favour of these separations from a [collections] POV because many
projects have dependencies on collections.jar when they don't need to,
foisting [collections] on people when it shouldn't be, giving
collections a bad name.
The other side of this coin is that we effectively encourage people to not
take advantage of all the useful stuff in Collections, and duplicate it or
do their own thing, just to avoid the dependency. That is just wrong.
I disagree, its about encouraging users to make a POSITIVE choice to take
collections, rather than it being a negative one, forced because they
actually wanted something else.
i have anecdotal evidence of this (from my day job). commons-collections is always available on our classpaths (due to dependencies) but (one day) when i happened mentioned (to one of my colleagues) that they'd save themselves a lot of time and effort by using a method or two from commons-collections, they took a look and then came back amazed at the amount of useful stuff in there :)
it's very sad that commons-collections is currently better know as a big, difficult dependency rather than as a very cool library. a lot of java developers could be *much* more productive if only they knew about collections and lang.
- robert
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