On Tuesday 28 September 2004 17:09, Sam Ruby wrote: > Niclas Hedhman wrote: > > On Tuesday 28 September 2004 09:30, Stefano Mazzocchi wrote: > >>If you want to change my mind, that's how you start: tell me what is the > >>benefit for the ASF in promoting this style of community building, > >>despite its long-term history of social energy waste, frustration and > >>contract instability. > > > > In all due respect, IMHO this thread was never meant to be about > > community style building. Initially I brought up an issue of "knowing the > > playing field" to a more explicit extent, and secondary about level of > > transparency. > > OK, new thread. > > If you want to change my mind, you also need to start at the same place > as Stefano indicated.
Sorry if I gave the impression, but I don't want to change the style of community building. I DO want a peaceful and consensus-driven environment. I am also tired of the "negative atmosphere" in Avalon and that's the reason why I resigned from its PMC to concentrate on getting the development done. When _I_ speak to Steve privately, he says he is also tired from it, as time spent on fruitless debates could be used to move the product(s) forward, but he has a view that he is not entirely to blame, and he means that the root causes to the situation is much deeper than his desire to make Merlin a success. Rightly or wrongly so, the tone of "competition" in Avalon was set well before the emergence of Merlin. That was bad. So now the train was moving, and noone pulled the breaks, not any individual, not the PMC, not the PMC Chair, not the community, not the Board - noone. That was also bad. Steve for sure added to the heat, but wasn't alone, and I expressed some serious concerns about how I perceived the situation as a lowly user a year and a bit ago; http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=avalon-dev&m=106001074924233&w=2 (and the comments that followed are also interesting) But now is now, and let's learn from history instead of criticizing it, and stop looking for blame. We need to find the 'markers' of projects going down the wrong track, and put in place 'safety valves' to defuse the situation before it becomes critical. I am not sure of how such 'marker detection' and 'safety valve' system should be constructed, but I trust that through out the entire ASF community, there must be plenty of ideas. I am anxious to discuss this, and put them in place immediately for Avalon and/or Metro. Cheers Niclas -- +------//-------------------+ / http://www.bali.ac / / http://niclas.hedhman.org / +------//-------------------+ --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
